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Up In Your Business Home PageAbout Kerry McCoy

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Aaron Lubin President of Executive Recruiters Agency

Listen to the 10/20/17 podcast to find out:
  • Job hunting and how to interview well
  • Identifying your strengths and life goals
  • Number one mistake people make when interviewing
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Aaron Lubin is President of Executive Recruiters Agency, Inc, Outplacement Consultants, and Aaron Lubin Consultants. Aaron also works as a consultant, trainer, speaker and executive coach working with individuals and organizations in helping them grow their businesses.  He has almost 40 years experience in the recruiting industry helping organizations from Fortune 500 to small business owners.

For 20-years he was CEO of one of the most successful temporary help staffing organizations in the southwest with eight offices.  His staffing organizations were in the top 10% of sales in the United States.  Aaron hosted a CBS affiliate radio talk show, an NBC affiliate television program, and was the play-by-play baseball announcer for Arkansas State University.

Education includes a Bachelor or Arts degree from California State University in Long Beach, California and a Master’s degree in Business and Human Relations from Webster College in St. Louis, Missouri.

He has had many leadership positions in professional and civic organizations such as central Arkansas Human Resource Association, Arkansas Repertory Theater, and Arkansas Opera Board. Aaron’s twenty-five years as a Rotarian include past president of Little Rock Club 99 and a Paul Harris Fellow.

Up In Your Business is a Radio Show by FlagandBanner.com


Behind The Scenes






[0:00:03.2] TB: Welcome to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. Be sure to stay tuned till the end of the show to hear how you can get a copy of this program and other helpful documents.


Now, it's time for Kerry McCoy to get all up in your business.




[0:00:17.8] KM: Thank you, Tim. Like Tim said, I’m Kerry McCoy and it’s time for me to get up in your business. If right now you’re sitting at your computer, you might want to watch us live on flagandbanner.com’s Facebook page. It’s fun to see what goes on behind the scenes.


Today, we’ve got a really loud computer in the background that’s going out, that I want to throw a blanket over, but then it would heat up and go out and then we’d be off the show completely. Then Jessie forgot to bring the cord and he had to run and get the cord, and so he’s hurrying around over there. It’s fun to see what goes on in the background.


Today’s show is for everyone, and I mean everyone. Who doesn’t want advice and an action plan from a life coach? Nobody. My guest Aaron Lubin, President of Executive of Recruiters Agency, Outplacement Consultants and Aaron Lubin Consultants, has been helping individuals and corporations since before the term life coach was even invented or used.


He my friends has what can’t be bought; experience on a lot of levels. This is not going to be a textbook theory subject today. We’re going to talk about real things that happen with real people. There are conversation and storytelling. We hope you learn something, want to get involved, or be inspired to take action in your own life.


For me, the action began over 40 years ago when I founded Arkansas Flag and Banner. During the last four decades, Flag and Banner has grown from door-to-door sales, to telemarketing, to mail order and catalog sales, and now relies heavily on the internet. Each changing self-strategy required a change in company thinking and procedures; my confidence, leadership knowledge and my company grew.


My initial $400 investment now produces nearly 4 million in annual sales. Each week on the show, you’ll hear candid conversations between me and my guest about real-world experiences on a variety of businesses and topics that I hope you’ll find interesting.


Starting and running a business or an organization is like so many things that takes persistence, perseverance and patience. No one, and I mean no one has a straight path to success. I worked part-time jobs for nine years before Arkansas Flag and Banner grew enough to support just me. Today, we have 10 departments and 25 co-workers, thus reminding us all, small businesses are the fuel of our country’s economic engine and empower people’s lives.


Before we start, I want to introduce you with people at the table. We have my co-host and co-worker at Flag and Banner, Tim. Say hello, Tim.


[0:02:42.0] TB: Hello, Tim.


[0:02:43.5] KM: Running the board and taking your calls is the scurrying around technician, Jessie. Thank you, Jessie.


[0:02:49.2] Jessie: Hey, no problem.


[0:02:51.5] KM: My guest today is consultant, trainer, speaker and executive coach Aaron Lubin, President of Executive Recruiters Agency, Outplacement Consultants and the Aaron Lubin Consultants in Little Rock, Arkansas.


Cumulatively, Aaron has almost 40 years’ experience in the recruiting industry. For 20 years, he was CEO of one of the most successful temporary staffing agencies in the southwest, overseeing eight satellite offices that were listed in the top 10% of recruiting offices in the whole United States.


Aaron, always an educator, shared his industry knowledge as host on CBS affiliate radio talk show and on an NBC affiliate television program. In addition, he was the play by play baseball announcer for Arkansas State University, and I just learned he’s traveled to 125 countries.


[0:03:41.6] AL: 112. My goal is to get to a 125 countries.


[0:03:44.7] KM: 112 countries. That’s a big deal. Aaron has a Bachelor of Arts Degree from California State University in Long Island, California, and a Master’s degree in Business and Human Relations from Webster College in St. Louis, Missouri.


He has given his time to such civic organizations at Central Arkansas Human Resources Association, Arkansas Repertory Theatre, Arkansas Opera Board and is past preside of Little Rock Rotary’s Club 99, which if you don’t know is the 9th largest rotary club in the world. It is a pleasure to welcome to the type of the ambitious and super personable, Aaron Lubin.


[0:04:22.2] AL: Glad to be here, Kerry.


[0:04:24.2] KM: You’ve done a lot, not to mention a 112 countries. But before we start, why do you have three business names?


[0:04:31.4] AL: Well, because they appeal to a different – they appealed somewhat similar to audience, but different. The recruiting firm was mostly recruiting finding talent for companies, the consulting firm was like I said consulting, might going in to say, “Okay, how do you market yourself? How do you brand your company?” That might be how to hire people doing seminars and how to hire people.


Also did work on training, training managers, supervisors. Then Outplacement Consultants was geared to companies that were doing layoffs, whether they were closing a facility, laying off a manager, where an outplacement consult, you help them career transition.


[0:05:18.1] KM: All right. The first 10 minutes of the show is really spent learning about you. Another 10 minutes would go to a break. Then we come back, we learn everything you have to teach us about life coaching, which is a lot of stuff like what to do, like you just said when a company sales or downsizes and how we can help people transition with that job hunting and how to interview well. My favorite, how to identify your strengths and focus on your goals. Everybody wants to know that.


First, let’s find out where you grew up. Are you from California?


[0:05:45.5] AL: No. I’m from St. Louis, Kerry. My father came over from Russia. He was about 10-years-old. It was right near the Bolshevik Revolution, and he came over and immigrated [0:05:57.3] and moved to St. Louis. He had about an 8th grade education, became an electrician. A damn good electrician.


I grew up at an immigrant neighborhood, where all my friends’ parents were European countries, and they were all – they were signed painters, tailors, plumbers, all trades people, all worked very hard, and they all took a lot of pride in what they do.


Doing a good job was the most important part of what they did for their customers. Yes, they wanted to make a living, but that was secondary. It was the days if you didn’t do the job right, a customer calls you, they didn’t ask you 50 questions; have you tried? Have you done that? They would just say, “Hey, I’ll be out there to fix it.”


My dad, I saw him worked very, very long hours. Probably worked like before Sam Walton City worked half a day, that’s what my father did, worked half a day; from 7 to 7, six days of work. I learned that work ethic, and I went to work – I had my first drive, I was a baseball umpire at 12-years-old. What a great experience, because when you’re a baseball umpire, you’re out there on – you’re by yourself. You’re kicked to ready for life, because in life when you bought a Danny, you face decisions, controversy by yourself. There I am as a 12-year-old dealing with parents and coaches who are two times my age.


[0:07:33.2] KM: Yeah, what age – who are you reffing?


[0:07:35.5] AL: I was reffing kids. Could be –


[0:07:37.2] KM: High school?


[0:07:38.0] AL: Anywhere from nine to 15-years-old. I’ll never forget, Kerry, one time this coach was getting on me. I went over and I said, “Next time, you start getting on me, I’m going to throw you out of the game.”


[0:07:52.6] KM: You’re 12.


[0:07:53.6] AL: I walked around, turned around and my knees were shaking. I said, “I can’t believe I did that.”


[0:07:59.4] KM: Yeah, I can’t either.


[0:08:01.1] AL: We’ve all been in those situations where we had to deal with some controversy where you had to step up to the plate, even though you’re shaking in your boots, but you had to do that. Then I had jobs. I was a waiter and I tell that is one of the best jobs that you can get, because you learn customer service, you learn conflict, you learn how to take care of people, how to go the extra mile, you learn that the service is as important as the food that you’re serving. You’re learning some –


[0:08:32.6] KM: Teamwork.


[0:08:33.3] AL: You’re learning life skills that stay with you. Young people look at you like, “Working at a restaurant? That’s like beneath me.” I said, “I don’t care if you’re a lawyer, a doctor, business owner, pharmacist, you have to have customer service skills.”


[0:08:48.6] KM: Teamwork. You have to work with the kitchen. You are to go between the kitchen and the customer.


[0:08:52.9] AL: You got to learn not to blame it when the meal is cold, don’t blame it on the kitchen.


[0:08:57.9] KM: Yeah, because every meal would be cold.


[0:08:59.4] AL: Exactly. You got to say, “Hey, we did – It’s we. It’s a team.” I did that. I was also a leader for a junior high club. Good experience at that. I was a basketball referee. Did door-to-door, sold first aid kits, ironing board covers back then.


Great experiences on how to deal with rejection, how to deal – be persistent, how to be resilient. I mean, those were things that really trained me. I used one of Mark Twain’s quotes, one of my favorite quotes. I love quotes. Is don’t let your books get in the way of your education.


[0:09:38.6] KM: Wow. That is a great one.


[0:09:40.9] AL: Because when you get out of college, yeah they may ask you your GPA to get your first job. But I know when I ran my own business, probably like you Kerry, nobody never asked me what my GPA was. They want to know what kind of service – what are you going to provide me. They didn’t care about my GPA. Unless you’re going into research, and you had to deal with people –


[0:10:06.2] KM: Yes, a profession that requires that.


[0:10:08.7] AL: Otherwise, it’s relationships, it’s your people skills. I learned a deal with all kind of people. I mean, I painted curbs, I was in between jobs. Once I’ve painted Elvis Presley’s curb in Los Angeles and Danny Thomas’s curbs. Great experience. To paint curb, I didn’t know I was a painter and it was a lot of fun to do those. The jobs I held were fun. I didn’t look at them as menial jobs beneath me. They were just life learning kinds of jobs.


[0:10:42.1] KM: I get upset when I hear people say, “Oh, I haven’t – well, I haven’t –” when they come to apply for a job for me and I say, “What have you been doing over the past year?” “Well, I haven’t been able to find a job.” I think you can find – everybody can find a job. It may not be the job you want, but you can find a job and you never know where that job is going to lead you.


[0:10:56.0] AL: I’ll tell you, two of the jobs that I got were not advertised, somebody looking, it was knocking on doors. Of course, in those days, you could get into somebody’s office. Now with security and all that. I wanted to get in the entertainment biz. I went to school college at Southern California in your typical entertainment business.


I knocked on doors of different talent agencies being an agent. I got turned down by a lot of people. Finally, there’s one place, I kept knocking and knocking on door, they said finally, “We’ll see you.” They finally said, “We’re tired of seeing you. We’re going to create a job for you. You’re hired.”


Kerry, I didn’t know what my pay was until I got my first check. Because you know what? I didn’t care. They could’ve paid me nothing. When you want something, you want to get in some, the pay was secondary. I did know – can you imagine somebody today taking a job not knowing, “What am I going to get paid in the first paycheck?” But I was glad to get in the entertainment business.


[0:12:09.8] KM: You’re doing exactly what Warren Buffett told a bunch of MBA people at Harvard. They asked him, “How do you get a job at a firm you like? Just how do you get a job when you graduate from school?” He said, “I recommend finding the firm, or the career you like, or at the firm you like, going there and getting a job, even with sweeping the floor or being a janitor at night. Just get your foot in the door and then work your way up to where you want to be.”


He said, “Too many people want to start too high up. Find the place you want to work, like you did the agency. Get your foot in the door. What happened after you got the agency?”


[0:12:42.9] AL: I worked there for a couple years, and then I got into – I never thought that I would get into the fashion industry. There I was, it’s interest when I applied for that job and I tell people, young people, “You never know what kind of question somebody is going to ask you at an interview.” In those days, you put your hobbies on it. I put baseball.


One of the questions the interviewer asked, who became my future boss, “What position do you play?” I said, “Shortstop or second base.” He said, “We need a infielder on our team in the advertising league. You’re hired.”


[0:13:20.7] KM: That is not true.


[0:13:22.1] AL: That’s true.


[0:13:23.0] KM: You never why you’re going to get hired, do you?


[0:13:25.8] AL: You don’t know the kind of questions. If you could make a connection with them. I worked there in the fashion – I sold advertising, I wrote advertising, worked with models, did merchandising with the publications. You talk about two tough industries; the fashion industry and the entertainment industry, long hours, tough, and they pay to get started the least, or probably any other industries. But I wanted to get in those industry. Then I quit my job, I broke it up with a young lady and I was devastated. I had never traveled Europe before. I went to Europe.


[0:14:09.4] KM: You quit your job, quit your girlfriend, when did –


[0:14:12.2] AL: Three days later I got on a chartered flight, landed on Frankfurt, Germany with a passport and no itinerary.


[0:14:19.8] KM: How old were you?


[0:14:22.9] AL: 25, 26. No itinerary. Met people on the rail pass, met people, travel with people, great experience. These kind of experience learn you to be independent, to carry yourself, put yourself in foreign situations.


[0:14:43.1] KM: Think on your feet.


[0:14:43.7] AL: Those are the kinds of things that no matter what our stage in life is, no matter what we do, those are the things that are presented to you in life. I came back is when I painted curves, because I wanted something to do. Did Fuller Brush door-to-door, and then –


[0:14:59.8] KM: How long did you stay in Germany?


[0:15:01.2] AL: I was in Europe a total of about 13 weeks. It was great. I really had a great time. When I came back, I wasn’t sure what I want to do. A friend of mine told me and said, “You need to go down in this recruiting firm. They might be able to help you with a job.” I don’t know.


I went down there, they ended up hiring me. That’s how I –


[0:15:24.5] KM: To paint curbs.


[0:15:24.6] AL: I knew nothing about the recruiting business.


[0:15:27.1] KM: They hired you to be in the –


[0:15:28.7] AL: Yeah. I thought the recruiting business was you sat there all day and you interviewed people, that’s all you did. I didn’t realize, you got to go out and find clients.


[0:15:37.0] KM: That was the beginning of your career that you’ve had all your life?


[0:15:39.9] AL: Yeah.


[0:15:40.8] KM: Okay. Gosh, that’s good.


[0:15:42.1] AL: You know what they did?


[0:15:42.8] KM: What?


[0:15:44.0] AL: I don’t think companies do it today. You know how they started me with my clients? They said, “Aaron, here is the Yellow Pages. Anybody you want to call on, you could call on.”


[0:15:57.7] KM: That’s like the third or fourth person we’ve had say that’s how they started their – how they gotten into this.


[0:16:02.5] AL: You could imagine. There you are.


[0:16:04.2] KM: Looking at the Yellow Pages book.


[0:16:05.1] AL: Looking at the Yellow Page, and your boss not giving you a lot of help, and you got to figure out, “What am I going to do?” Again, a great experience. I ended up becoming a manager of department, work with some great people.


When I moved to Arkansas, I was right from St. Louis, went to school out there. I thought, “Well, what do I know? I had some friends that had moved here going to graduate school.” I didn’t really know anybody in Little Rock. Southern California was getting crowded, smog and drugs.


[0:16:39.7] TB: How did you pick Arkansas?


[0:16:40.3] AL: Well by friends who are going to graduate school.


[0:16:41.5] TB: That’s right. Okay. I’m sorry.


[0:16:42.6] AL: I came here for a visit, I said, “This looks like a great place. It’s green.” My dream was always to go on my own business. Growing up in that neighborhood that I grew up with, all my friends’ parents being – they’re all their own business with trades. It was around me. I always wanted to run my own shop. I thought that would be rewarding. I could build something.


I said, “Hey, since I know the recruiting business, this is what I’m going to do.” I just went out and introduced myself and joined a lot of organizations. I learned, especially in Arkansas it’s a very much an organizational state. People belong to a lot of organization. We have so many non-profits and so many organizations. Joined the JCs. I didn’t know any about the JCs. I joined the Human Resource Association.


All of a sudden – what I tell people too, “Don’t just join an association. If you’re going to be a member, get involved.”


[0:17:44.0] KM: You have that as one here –


[0:17:44.1] AL: That’s what I did. I got involved in every association. I was either an officer or a program chairman, or became president, because again, that’s how you could really make a contribution and do some good to the community.


[0:18:00.1] KM: Absolutely. I saw on your website that you talk about networking. This is a great place to take a break. We’re going to talk about some of the step-by-step processes on networking, interviewing for your dream job, identifying your strengths and your life goals. If you’re sitting on the couch paralyzed, we’re going to talk you up on how to make an action plan.


[0:18:17.3] TB: You’re listening to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. If you missed any part of the show, a podcast will be made available next week at flagandbanner.com’s website. If you prefer to listen on iTunes, YouTube or Sound Cloud, you’ll find those links there as well. Lots of listening options, we’ll be right back.


[0:18:47.5] KM: Happen today in the 21st century. You’re listening to Up in Your Business with me, Kerry McCoy. I’m speaking today with Aaron Lubin. He’s a life coach and really more. He’s President of Executive Recruiter Agency in Little Rock, Arkansas.


Well, when we went to the break you were talking about starting your business in Arkansas and networking and how important that all was to you. How much does it cost you to start your business, just for people to know how little it is to cost start a –


[0:19:14.1] AL: It didn’t take much at all, because I didn’t take a salary.


[0:19:18.2] KM: Did you work a part-time job?


[0:19:19.6] AL: No, no. I had some money I saved up. I said I can’t pay myself, I’ve got to go out and get clients. It’s interesting, Kerry. I had two phone lines by myself. What I would do, I would – when I had to go to the bathroom, or go to – I barely rarely went to lunch. I had to go out for some reason. I would call the one line to the other line.


[0:19:49.4] KM: Make it busy.


[0:19:50.2] AL: If you called my business, the lines were busy, because I couldn’t afford an answering service.


[0:19:56.6] KM: That is thinking out of the box.


[0:19:56.9] AL: So people would say, you’re right, your line was busy. “You guys must be busy.” I said, “Yeah, we’ve been busy.”


[0:20:03.8] KM: Aaron that is creative. Anybody that doesn’t think business is creative needs to rethink that again. All right, you work with individuals and you work with corporations. But a lot of people listening today are going to be individuals. Let’s start with your career counseling for individuals. You say on your website, “We can provide you with the objective career advice and support you need to make the changes you want as quickly as possible. The skills you learn from working with us, you will use the rest of your life.” Where do you start?


[0:20:37.4] AL: You got to find somebody’s passion. Life is too short. It’s more acceptable now to change jobs five years later. My days, you stay in a job, you know once you start a job you were there for 30 or 40 years. What are the things that you like to do? If you could get that into a work date, and that maybe you have to explore some different things.


[0:21:05.3] KM: Do you have them take a test when they come see you? Do they take the Myers Briggs test?


[0:21:08.5] AL: Yeah. I’ve done the Myers Brigg test, youth psychological test in the past. I’ve had some strong – it’s called the strong inventory test, which told do you like doing this? Do you like doing that? That helps people in doing that. I tell people, “Hey, if you want to be a fashion designer –” I’ll ask them, “Have you sat down with a fashion designer?” “No.”


I said, “Well, how do you know what a fashion designer do?” I said, “Call a fashion designer. You’ll find if you call people, they’ll welcome. Go sit down with two or three of them.” Say, “Tell me what you do 9 to 5, day in, day out, what does a fashion designer do?”


[0:21:49.2] KM: That is exactly why I started this radio show, because people call me and e-mail me asking me advice all the time. We welcome it. It makes me feel good about myself.


[0:21:58.0] AL: You go out and you could read about it, but talk to people. Then even say, “Hey, there was a part-time job.” Say, “Okay, I’m going to go work for a fashion designer.” The pay is not important. I want to see day in and day out if this is something I really feel my passion for.


[0:22:15.4] KM: Like you said before the break, you could even, I mean just get a job just sweeping the floors there. It doesn’t matter. Just get your foot in the door and see if you like the feel of the business.


[0:22:24.6] AL: You’ll be around and you’ll learn a lot. The old saying, you’ll learn a lot by what – I love Yogi Bear had said that.


[0:22:31.5] KM: What?


[0:22:31.8] AL: You’ll learn a lot by watching.


[0:22:34.8] KM: Yeah, you will.


[0:22:35.0] AL: You watch people, you see what they do, you talk to them, “What do you like? What don’t you like?” The skills that I think to be successful, I could piggyback on that. Companies are looking for perseverance, resiliency, how are you building relationships, how do you work within a team, how do you deal with adversity, what’s your work ethic like?


[0:23:03.9] KM: That’s perfect.


[0:23:04.4] AL: Those are the kinds of things. Not like, “Okay, you’re supposed to be at work at 8:00. You show up at 8:05, you go to the coffee pod for a cup of coffee, you go to the bathroom, you go outside, you talk to a few people, now 8:45 you’re ready to go to work. It drives employers up the wall. It would drive me up the wall.


Those skills, they’re hard to train. Those are skills that usually people have it or not. I found the best I tell people, one of the things I advise, the best bosses that you can work for have high expectations. I tell them, “Think back of when you were in school; grade school, high school, college, what professors did you hate the most and what professors did you learn the most from? The ones that are most demanding.”


You didn’t appreciate it at the time. Always the same way. I look back and I can remember those teachers that tested me, that wouldn’t take excuses. I’ve had a couple bosses with high standards, and those are the ones I remember and I appreciate. I tell especially younger people starting out, “Don’t think I got it easy with –” You want to talk when you’re interviewing. Find out what’s their stat, go to work for somebody who has accountability – That’s the way you’re going to learn and grow.


[0:24:33.1] KM: As a boss, it took me a long time to learn to be the boss that you’re talking about, to really make defined rules and enforce those rules. I remember, I would do some exit interviews with some of my favorite employees and 20 years ago or more and they would say, “I love working here, but you’re letting all these other people get away with stuff and I am the one who’s having to clean up the mess. You’re spending all your time on your C & D employees and not any time on your A & B employees.”


Took me a long time to learn that you celebrate the stars and you rotate the C & D employees. You try to train them first, you try to make really clear rules, let them know really what’s going to happen after one, two or three warnings, and then you really – after three warnings you really do let them go and –


[0:25:30.1] AL: People, I think they want to know where they stand as. One of the biggest mistakes that I see industry make, bosses, managers, owners don’t want to deal with conflict. They don’t want to tell the person, “Hey, you’re not cognitive.” They wait and wait until they get fed up and they say, “Okay, I’ve had enough. I’m going to terminate this person.”


[0:25:52.4] KM: That’s not fair.


[0:25:53.1] AL: I’ve seen that in outplacement, where companies lay off people. I had one situation laid off somebody after 30 years with the company. I said, “Well, when did you know that they –” “About 10 years ago.”


[0:26:05.3] KM: You didn’t have the guts to go talk to him about them and give them a chance to change.


[0:26:09.7] AL: I tell individuals, employees, find out even if your company doesn’t do a formal review, you need to ask your boss, “Hey, I want to sit down and see. I got to know where I am, what you like, where I need to improve.”


[0:26:26.8] KM: Then let’s flip that. If you’re an individual and you’re not happy, how is your boss supposed to know? Then one day you blow up, or you move on and your boss is like, “What’s wrong?” You were like, and the employee maybe, “You never appreciated me, or you never saw what I was doing, or whatever it might be.”


[0:26:48.0] AL: Well people – it was a likert study, University of Michigan. Asked employers 10 reasons why people leave, asked the employees 10 reasons why you leave. You know what? They were opposite. Employers put the people leave for money and that was like third or fourth. Employees put, “I want to be valued, I want to be included, I want to be appreciated.”


[0:27:13.9] KM: I want to –


[0:27:14.5] AL: I want to grow.


[0:27:14.8] KM: I want to grow. That’s right. I want to affect change and grow with the company. Yeah. I believe that completely. What’s the number one mistake that employees, or people looking for a job make when they go in on an interview?


[0:27:30.8] AL: Not prepared. It is amazing. You would think with all the internet, they go in there, they’re not prepared, because sometimes what happens is the person who gets interviewed is not necessarily the most qualified, but the person who knows how to interview the best.


When somebody is interviewing, most candidates are fairly – there’s not a lot of difference. The employers got to make – usually, we heard the old expression on a gut feeling. If you go there unprepared, you know their company, their history, the product, where they came, you know something about the person there interviewing, you go in and know that and then you ask intelligent questions, like what are your expectations? What do you expect of me the first 90 days? What are you looking for? Why is the position open?


[0:28:25.7] KM: Excellent.


[0:28:26.7] AL: Is this a replacement? Is it a new position? Why did the other person not work out?

[0:28:31.7] KM: Wow, that’s a good one. No one has ever asked me that.


[0:28:33.9] AL: What are your expectation in the first 90 days? I want to know that.


[0:28:38.3] KM: They always ask what the benefits are, but they never ask those questions. Like why did the last person leave? What are your expectations?


[0:28:47.8] AL: Who I’ll be in bound? What team? You say I’ll be on a team, what are some of the other kind of people – what are their that I’m going to be working with? That’s what I’m talking about being prepared. Salary, you never ask, benefits you never ask. The employer knows you’re there for a paycheck and eventually they’re going to come out with that and talk about those kinds of things.


[0:29:13.6] KM: Wow. Really good advice. In the first 30 minutes we’ve talked about find your passion, start to work, never – don’t work, always work, because you never know where any menial job is going to lay you. Find your passion and then go to work at that place that you think you’re passionate about and find out if it really is your passion, get in on the ground floor, pay attention, listen.


Then if you do like it and it is your passion, go in and tell the boss what you want and what you think before you move on, or you get discriminal. Or if you decide to go and move to another job, we’ve talked about going on an interview and being really prepared. I am amazed how many people come to interview with me and have never been to my website. I won’t even hire those people. If you come to interview with me and I say, “What do you think of my website?” “You know, I didn’t go there.” I’m like, that’s going to be a three-minute interview.


[0:30:06.1] AL: They’re not prepared. No.


[0:30:08.3] KM: They don’t have an initiative.


[0:30:09.9] AL: That’s something you can’t train somebody on.


[0:30:12.0] KM: You cannot train that.


[0:30:12.9] AL: You can’t train in this. I’ve earned that –


[0:30:15.0] KM: That’s their mother and father’s job.


[0:30:17.6] AL: A person’s background is interesting. I could tell in my office, most cases if they were an only child, if they maybe came from two or three children, or if they one of seven or eight children. You could tell the person who’s been an only child. I’m generalizing.


Criticism is tough to take. They have a harder time working in a team, because they’ve always – they’ve been the one. They’ve been the one that parents have doted. They’ve come from seven or eight in their family, they’ve had to share. They know that hey, the company we can’t just go out and do and buy things in somebody whim’s notice. Part of your job as owner or manager is fiscal responsibility.


[0:31:06.6] KM: Yes. They get along well with others, because they’ve had to learn to negotiate from an early age, without getting mother to here from the other room what’s going on. They quietly negotiate. Look, Jessie is shaking his head. Yes, because you have four kids?


[0:31:23.7] Jessie: I’m from a family of seven too. I had three sisters and three brothers.


[0:31:28.0] KM: You can negotiate. When someone leaves you Aaron, what do they walk away with?


[0:31:34.9] AL: Well, I think probably the most important thing is self-confidence. Because when people are looking for a job, no matter what the circumstances, they’ve lost their self-confidence. You’ve got to help them say and realize, “You’re no different today. Think of yourself when you were successful, maybe or two or three, whatever. You need to get back in that metal frame and feel good about yourself.” That’s what I call – Matt call, you incorporate managing yourself.


We have those tapes in our head. We all have them. We can play negative tapes, “I can’t believe I did this. Oh, my God. I’m not worth anything I did this.” Or you could play positive tapes, “Hey, I’m a good person. I’m a value. I have something to offer.” You’ve got to get them in that mindset, giving them self-confidence and saying, “Hey, you’ve got the tools.” The tools that you don’t have, you can do some. Go out and read. Go out and learn about this. Before you go out in an interview, you’re interviewing in the fashion industry, learn everything you can about the fashion industry.


[0:32:41.4] KM: Get your confidence up, you’re going to do that, because I’ve been around you for years and you make everybody feel good about themselves just the way you are. You can also go look at pictures of yourself when you looked good, or read something you wrote. Sometimes I listen to the podcast that Jessie has maybe edited and hear a past interview and I go, “Yeah, that was a good interview,” when I’m feeling inadequate or not having a great day.


Go find some stuff about yourself, because I heard someone say just the other night that when I get – it was a director, who is a director of the new movie of The Orient Express that’s coming out.


[0:33:17.5] AL: Great movie.


[0:33:18.4] KM: Have you seen it?


[0:33:19.1] AL: Yeah, great movie.


[0:33:19.9] KM: He was the director and he –


[0:33:23.1] AL: He played the detective.


[0:33:23.7] KM: He sure did. He said, they asked him what did he do to motivate his actors? Because he had some really big stars in it. Huge stars. He said, “Praise.” He said, “I just praised them all all the time.” He said, “Praise makes everybody try harder and it gives you the courage to do more.” Surround yourself with people that praise you, if you’re in one of those moments where –


[0:33:52.1] AL: Be around positive people.


[0:33:53.8] KM: That’s so important.


[0:33:54.7] AL: Yeah, that’s important in the workplace. That’s part of that. When you’re working somewhere, you should network and get involve and get to know people outside of your area.


[0:34:07.2] KM: What do you mean?


[0:34:08.0] AL: Let’s say you’re working in the county, you need to interact with the sales people, the marketing people, the office people, the IT people. Get to know those people, because you’re going to have to deal with them at some time.


[0:34:23.6] KM: Yeah. That’s just more your human relations that you learn to communicate with people well. I think one of the things we do too and you may agree with this is when you and I were younger, you could go to work when you were 12 or 14. We’ve protected our children so much now that they can’t go to work until they’re at least 16-years-old. Then it’s very limited on how they can work.


I feel like you’ve really missed an opportunity there for a young person to grow. Because by the time you’re 16, you’re pretty self-conscious. When you’re 14, you’re self-conscious, but everything you do you’re self-conscience about. What’s going to a job versus going to school versus going on your first date? Everything is frightening. I think it hurts our young people by not letting them get out into the workforce and learn life skills early when they’re very flexible.


[0:35:11.9] AL: I agree wholeheartedly what you’re saying.


[0:35:13.6] KM: I’m not sure what the answer is to that.


[0:35:15.8] AL: Well, I think parents sometimes too are over-protective. That hurts the kids. That hurts the kids when they’re too protective.


[0:35:26.0] KM: Okay. Let’s take another quick break. We’ve talked about individuals. When we come back, I want to talk about the dos and don’ts. We’ve already talked about the interviewing, but I’m going to talk about what you do for corporations and managers. We touched a little bit about that. I’m going to continue to give people action tips. We might talk about some of the 112 places that you’ve traveled.


[0:35:47.8] TB: You’re listening to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. If you missed any part of the show, a podcast will be made available next week at flagandbanner.com’s website. If you’d prefer to listen on iTunes, YouTube or Sound Cloud, you’ll find those links there as well. Lots of listening options, we’ll be right back.


[0:36:18.1] KM: You’re listening to Up in Your Business with me, Kerry McCoy. I’m speaking today with Aaron Lubin. He’s a life coach and really more. He’s President of Executive Recruiter Agency in Little Rock, Arkansas.


We were talking about how insecure actors and actresses are at the break. You said in New York and Hollywood that a lot of people had to go out and had to go out often and run errands to pick up liquor for a lot of actors and actresses that really have to have a swig before they can get in their game.


I said I did that for a long time up to rest in peace, but I did that for Lawrence Hamilton before he went on for an interview with me. What about the job market today?


[0:36:56.7] AL: Well, the job market is very good. I mean, the problem that –


[0:37:00.1] KM: For who?


[0:37:01.4] AL: Well, employers are having problems finding people.


[0:37:03.7] KM: There you go, because –


[0:37:05.0] AL: Your job is out there. That’s the problem they’re having that. What you get into people, a lot of it is these soft skills that I’m talking about, because they’re saying, “These people are not dependable, they’re not reliable, they don’t want to work.”


[0:37:20.7] KM: There’s a lot of life-work balance issues that a lot of people want in their life now. We got all our first world problems, I’m happy to say. We’re not having to put – I mean really and truly, my parents really were putting food on the table. I mean, they really, really were. Today, I get mad because the elevator is slow in a building and then I think, “Oh, my gosh, Kerry. Get a grip on reality.” I’m talking about a spoiled first-world problem.


I think that is true for us employers to find people that really do – that really are ambitious and that really do want to work. Although I have to say Tim, we have a great crew at Flag and Banner, don’t we?


[0:37:57.7] TB: We do. I have really enjoyed working there. Mainly, just because I like everyone we work with so much.


[0:38:03.5] KM: I know. Another part you do is you work with corporations. Let’s say some of these come in – wow, this hour has flown by. Let’s say somebody comes in and says the corporation has been bought and they’re going to downsize. Don’t the corporation sometimes call you and help you come in and coach the people that are going to laid off? Talk a little bit about that. Because I have seen a lot about that.


[0:38:26.9] AL: There is a difference between hiring people that you’ve been hiring people most of your life. Now you’re on the other side of the desk. That doesn’t mean that you’re a good interviewer, because you’ve interviewed people. It’s a different skillset. Now you have to sell yourself.


I find most manages do not interview well, because they’re a little overconfident, they take it for granted that the interviewer – I’ve been a manager. I’ve supervised 50, 20, 30 people. You can’t assume that you have to sell yourself. You’ve got to think, “Hey, I’m looking for a job. I got to market myself. These people don’t know my skillset. They don’t know about my 20 years’ experience. I’m going to have to educate them on what I can do, what my skillset and how I can be a valuable asset to this company.”


[0:39:19.7] KM: I guess they’re, like you said, depressed a little bit. They’re downing themselves. They’ve lost a job they’ve had for 20 years. The company has downsized.


[0:39:28.6] AL: They’ve lost a lot of confidence, because let’s face it, most people look at themselves the way they look at their job, or their career. That’s who they are. What does somebody ask you when you need somebody? Where do you work? What do you do?


Now, I’ve had managers tell me they go somewhere socially, somebody ask them and they kind of little shapelessly, “I’m networking.” They feel, “Oh, my God. These people are going to think less of me.”


[0:39:59.9] KM: If I lost my job and bankrupt the Arkansas Flag and Banner, which I’ve almost done three or four times, I always said I would go back to waiting tables, which is what you talked about the top of the hour. I love waiting tables. When you wait tables, you meet so many people, I feel like you could probably find a job there, just by waiting tables.


[0:40:19.0] AL: A lot of people I have seen work as bad boys in a golf club and make connections with one of the members who got a job and that’s why I tell these young kids, “Go somewhere where you’re going to make context. You never know who you’re going to meet.”


[0:40:33.7] KM: When you do – that’s your network, and when you do these workshops, do you go into an organization and say, “Okay, everybody is going to get laid off in 30 days. We’re going to do a workshop. It’s going to be one to three days and this is what we’re going to work on.”


[0:40:45.7] AL: I’ll tell you, sometimes Kerry I’ve gone in to a plant where it was just announced by the plant manager, HR manager, “We’re closing this place tomorrow.” Here, you go in there and you’re the guy that’s saying, “I’m here to help you.” You know they’re not listening. They’re throwing darts at you, sure. You tell me here and I just got laid off.


You’ve got to deal first – you go to let them vent. You got to let them be angry, because they’re upset. It’s like a death. They’re going to be angry. They’re going to go through a denial. “God, I can’t believe this is happening to me. I’ve worked here all my life and look what the company is doing?”


See, you have to work through those issues first before you can get them on a path to let’s say, “Okay, now we got to look to the future. Let’s look at your experience, what you’ve done, what you want to do, your confidence level, your skill set,” and getting a build to go out in the marketplace to sell themselves. Because you got to be able to sell yourself.


[0:41:58.5] KM: The first day, they vent, throw darts at you. Second day you say, “We’re going to start on resumes.”


[0:42:05.3] AL: We got to start working. Now, we go to look to the future. It’s not going to do you any good. You’re going to still be upset and I understand that. We got to look now to your future. It’s not going to do you any good to be PO’d for the next six months.


[0:42:19.8] KM: What is it that people should put on their resumes that sets them apart from everybody else?


[0:42:23.5] AL: Accomplishments. Companies don’t want to hire the average Suzie or average Joe. They are looking for the cream of the crop. You’ve got to get their attention on that resume. What’s going to grab action words? This is what we accomplished and grew. We raised sales by so much in the company. We made our branch 25% more profitable. We reduced expenses by 20%. What did you do to make an impact on that company? No matter how little you think it is. That’s what companies want to hire.


[0:42:59.1] KM: I want to know – I interviewed someone just this week and I said, “Tell me something about that nobody really knows that’s really interesting.” I’d want to know that kind of stuff that tells you a little bit about them.


[0:43:09.7] AL: Sure. It’s good if you could find out a little bit what makes them tick. What do they do? What do they when they’re at school? What kind of part-time jobs did they have? Find out if they’re a waiter or waitress or whatever. Find those things out.


[0:43:21.6] KM: How does it make you feel at the end of a work week like that, where everybody is upset and then everybody is trying to be optimistic and it’s all over with. What do you feel like when you come away from that?


[0:43:35.2] AL: You mean, if I had a bad week you mean?


[0:43:37.3] KM: Just how does that make you feel when you have to go and then do stuff like that?


[0:43:40.1] AL: Well, that’s not good at all. Anytime I had to terminate somebody, I did not sleep the night before. Because I knew I was affecting not just them, but their whole family. It’s going to affect what’s going on in their life, maybe their lifestyle, they’re going to have to make some adjustments. It’s no fun. I know that they would – they may throw darts at me, be upset and I had to listen to that. I understood that I did not – nobody, any of the employer that I’ve talked to. I’ve done stuff on what’s the right way – what I think is the right way to let somebody go. Nobody likes doing that.


[0:44:17.9] KM: Yeah, but I think when you let somebody go, when you’ve already done what we talked about earlier, which is coached them, tell them where the weaknesses are, given them tools to strengthen. I was mad at Tim the other day. Remember that?


[0:44:32.1] TB: We’ve been mad at you a couple times, but we get through it.


[0:44:34.5] KM: He said, “Just tell me what to do.” We made a little outline. Man, it changed his life. It changed our life together.


[0:44:42.8] AL: It saves a lot of time. One of the things I’ve seen Kerry is when companies and individuals don’t know expectations after they’ve been hired – so they’re on the job 90 days and six months and the employer says, “Well, I thought they could do such and such and such and such. They can’t do that.”


The employee says, “I thought this job was going to be this or that.” It was not discussed. It was not gone over on a weekly basis. Now you got six months and both parties are upset and time has been wasted. It’s communications.


[0:45:20.3] KM: You communicated with your employee that you’re going to let go. They just can’t figure out how to do it, or come to agreement or whatever. They still stay, even though they’re unable to accomplish what you want them to accomplish, and they know they’re not – they become discriminal and it hurts them around for the whole company.


When I don’t ever not sleep the night before when I feel like I’m going in to do this person a favor, because they don’t have the guts to go ahead and make the decision to quit. I’ll come in and more times than not, I come in and I say, “You know,  I’m going to do you a favor today and I’m going to let you go because you’re not very successful at this job.” More times than not, they say thank you.


[0:46:00.2] AL: Yeah. Because it’s not a surprise.


[0:46:02.6] KM: They want somebody just –


[0:46:03.3] AL: Most terminations, when I’ve asked employees later, they knew something was wrong. They knew that she was getting ready to drop. But like you said, they didn’t want to be the one to quit and say, “Hey, I need to move on. It’s not working out.” Sometimes they just can’t pull the trigger. It’s just as simple as that. Sometimes they get mad. I’m not saying that it’s always wonderful and sweet. Who has influenced you the most in your life?


[0:46:30.3] AL: I’ve had several matters, like most people in their life. That’s what I tell people in their career, “You’ve got to get people that can help you.” I had a high school baseball coach and guidance counselor. My dad was working all the time. My mother went around. I needed somebody to go to. When I was upset. We are as a kid, you feel insecure I’d go over to his house and I could vent.


[0:46:59.4] KM: To a guidance counselor?


[0:47:00.0] AL: My baseball coach. He was supportive. He and I are still good friends today. He’s looked at me for advice for his kids. He was one of my mentors. I had a boss who was a mentor who I said was one of those people who had high expectations and standards. He and I stayed connected throughout our lives. I’ve called upon him for guidance. I had a consultant that I used. I was able to call on him when I needed some help and guidance. When you’re on a business, people don’t think that owners don’t get insecure.


[0:47:35.4] KM: Oh, please.


[0:47:37.0] AL: You don’t sleep at night, you got a payroll to meet, you’ve got a personality conflict, your business is down one year, all these things happen.


[0:47:45.3] KM: Up the next.

[0:47:47.0] AL: You got to – it’s nice to have somebody that you can vent and say, “Hey, I understand. I’ve been through that.” It gives you that support and confidence. I still am able to call on those people for some guidance and support and say, “It’s all right that you made a mistake. Most successful baseball players if they hit 3-33, that’s one out of three.


[0:48:14.4] KM: They’re happy with it.


[0:48:15.1] AL: You’re going to make mistakes.


[0:48:16.7] KM: Give me one more to sum you up. One word and then we’re going to check out.


[0:48:20.4] AL: I’d say the one word to sum me up would be – one of them would be probably adventuresome. I’ve been adventuresome in my business. I’ve been adventuresome in my life. You talked about travel. To me, life is an adventure. You’re here once, enjoy it, you have fun with it. Have fun, that is so important, in your business career, you’re working all day. I’ve been adventuresome in my business. I’ve done some risk, some of them worked out, some didn’t work out.


[0:48:51.3] KM: That’s right. Yet, that’s true for everybody. Thank you so much for coming on.  You are just a life-changing person and I think people probably got a lot of what you had to say. This is for you.


[0:49:02.5] AL: I’ve got to place them like this that I will put there among some of the flags of my other countries.


[0:49:08.6] KM: Aaron, you got a place on your desk where you keep flags?


[0:49:10.9] AL: Yeah. I got some from [inaudible 0:49:12.1].


[0:49:13.3] KM: I bet you do, and all that 112 places that you traveled. Is that a desk then at the Arkansas, the US and California that your alma mater where you graduated from college. I didn’t realize you were from Missouri or hadn’t gotten that for you.


If you got a great entrepreneur or a story you would like to share, I’d love to hear from you. Send a brief bio and your contact info to questions at upyourbusiness.org and someone will be in touch.


Finally, to our listeners thank you for spending time with me. If you think this program is all about you, you’re right. But it’s also been for me. I hope you’ve learned something today that will help you up your business, your independence or your life. I’m Kerry McCoy and I’ll see you next time on Up In Your Business. Until then, be brave and keep it up.




[0:49:54.3] TB: You’ve been listening to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. Want to hear today’s program again or want someone else to benefit from it? Jot this down. Next week, a podcast will be available at flagandbanner.com. Click the tab labeled “Radio Show”, there you’ll find today’s segment with links to resources you heard discussed on this program. Kerry’s go to help you live the American Dream.



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