Aaron Reddin
The Van
Aaron Reddin is the product of Booger Holler hillbillies coming down to the Arkansas River Valley and colliding with the Ouachita hillbillies at the foot of Danville Mountain. In his own words, Aaron "made some bad decisions" and wound up living out of his car and addicted to amphetamines at age 20. Seeking stability and discipline, he enlisted with the marines.
Reddin was later discharged due to a bad knee, but he was sober and eager to help others. Aaron eventually landed in Central Arkansas, where he worked at various shelters and rehabilitation programs. Seeing people without coats and empty beds when the country is experiencing a housing crisis made Reddin realize that he could do a lot of good bringing help to people where they're at. He loaded up a vehicle with donated goods, and The Van was born.
Founded in 2010, The Van is a mobile outreach program that seeks to meet the needs of unsheltered homeless in Central Arkansas. Its operations are supported by Back 5 Fields, a 10-acre farm in North Little Rock. These nonprofits are bundled under The One, Inc., which has launched further nonprofits across the state, including The Russ Bus in Russelville and Mission Machine in Searcy.
Aaron lives in Little Rock with his wife and 3 old hound dogs. He battles Complex Regional Pain Syndrome (CRPS) in all 4 limbs and hopes to find a way to advocate for Arkansans who struggle to find or obtain treatment. He enjoys growing tomatoes and taking candid photos of his donkeys.
Listen to Learn:
- How Aaron's youth instilled in him the desire to help others
- How The Van helps unsheltered homeless
- What an individual can do to tackle big problems, and more...
Podcast Links
TRANSCRIPT
EPISODE 465
[INTRODUCTION]
[00:00:08] GM: Welcome to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy, a production of FlagandBanner.com. Through storytelling and conversational interviews, and Kerry’s natural curiosity, this weekly radio show and podcast offers listeners an insider’s view into the commonalities of entrepreneurs, athletes, medical professionals, politicians, and other successful people, all sharing their stories of success and the ups and downs of risk taking. Connect with Kerry through her candid, funny, informative, and always encouraging weekly blog. Now, it’s time for Kerry McCoy to get all up in your business.
[INTERVIEW]
[00:00:35] KM: Thank you, Son Gray. Meet Aaron Reddin, a relentless advocate for the unsheltered and the founder of The Van, a grassroots, nonprofit out of Little Rock, Arkansas. Aaron didn't set out to start a charity. He set out to solve a problem. After years of working across the state in traditional homeless services, he saw too many people slipping through the cracks, stuck in cycles of bureaucracy or lost in red tape.
So, in 2011, to solve this problem, he launched The Van, literally hitting the streets in a donated vehicle to bring supplies, support, and dignity directly to those living without shelter. He calls his approach 100% relational and 0% programmatic. Aaron and his team aren't just providing food and clothes, they're also building trust, forging relationships, and creating a mobile lifeline for people often overlooked. His approach is raw, real, and refreshingly human.
Through rain or shine, heat waves, and especially ice storms, The Van rolls on, bringing compassion and conversation to those who need it most. It is a great pleasure to welcome to the table the humble, hard-working, can-do man with a mission in a heart of gold, Mr. Aaron Reddin. Hey, Aaron.
[0:02:07] AR: Hey.
[0:02:08] KM: In reading about you, of which there is much. It sounds like you didn't start out to be a celebrity, but you certainly are. And my staff found over 20 articles written about you and all your good work.
[0:02:23] AR: Oh, goodness. Well, first of all, thank you for the wonderful introduction.
[0:02:28] KM: You're welcome.
[0:02:29] AR: I hope that I can maybe one day live up to all that.
[0:02:32] KM: So, before you go on, I want to tell everybody the bio you sent me. I'm just going to read the first sentence. So, my – that was my introduction. I want to read what I asked when the staff asked Aaron to send his, a little bio, this is what he wrote about himself. Aaron never stood much of a chance being that he was the product of Booger Hollow, hillbillies coming down to the Arkansas River Valley and colliding with the hillbillies from the Washitas at the foot of the Danville mountain. But he made the best of it and eventually landed in Central Arkansas, where he spends much of his time working to help our Kansans who are having to sleep outside in the midst of a nationwide housing crisis.
You may have seen him on Dr. Phil or at the doctor, maybe on the news, but probably not in the pews. Here, there, yonder. Aaron lives in Little Rock with his wife and three old hound dogs. He battles complex regional pain syndrome in all four limbs and hopes to find a way to advocate for our Kansans who struggle to find treatment. Now, that is hillbillies from the –
[0:03:39] AR: Like short, and succinct, and also, it's just perfect.
[0:03:42] KM: That was pretty good.
[0:03:43] AR: I appreciate it. I like to ride.
[0:03:45] KM: You do.
[0:03:46] AR: Yeah, I like to ride. I don't get to very much anymore. I've got a finger that – see that purple finger?
[0:03:51] KM: Yeah.
[0:03:50] AR: Please don't touch it.
[0:03:51] KM: Oh, what does that mean?
[0:03:52] AR: I have sensory issues there, but the whole – yes, that's CRPS. It's my –
[0:03:57] KM: What is CRPS?
[0:03:59] AR: Complex regional pain syndrome. My sympathetic nervous system does not communicate with my brain properly anymore. So, I have pain in all four limbs, up to my jaws, and my bodily thermostat doesn't work anymore. Just a host of other autonomic issues. I've had five spinal surgeries. Sorry.
[0:04:23] KM: Is this why you're so sympathetic to people that are on the streets? Because you've got this issues and you can kind of relate to them, maybe?
[0:04:31] AR: Maybe, I don't know. I mean, a lot of it, I was raised by some very strong Arkansas hillbilly woman who taught me to care about the people around me. And they showed me that by the way that they did it. So, that's kind of, you know.
[0:04:51] KM: So, you split your time between Russellville and Danville.
[0:04:53] AR: Yeah. Growing up, definitely went to elementary in Danville. Then, parents divorces, kind of back and forth between Russellville and Danville. Then, joined the Marine Corps, I was maybe 19 or 20, it was right after 9/11, did not expect to get out, but ended up out. Moved to Nashville, managed construction for a while, moved to Richmond, Virginia and managed construction there for a while, came back here. Worked for The Log Cabin and the Dem-Gaz, and doing circulation management, sometimes throwing papers, stuff like that.
[0:05:35] KM: Is that when you begin to see all the homeless people out in the rural areas?
[0:05:38] AR: No, I really – I got tired of seeing just a lack of support for people who wanted a better life. I really thought that I was going to do recovery work, just helping folks get up. I mean, at that time, meth was just so stinking bad across the state. There were not a lot of options for people that were coming out of small-town Arkansas, where I grew up, and you're seeing people just waste away or not, not survive it. And there, there, there's no options. We don't have enough treatment beds, recovery beds, all of that, that are affordable if you don't have insurance and things like that.
So, I really thought I was going to do recovery work forever, ended up landing a job here in Little Rock at the Union Rescue Mission. I managed a nine-month drug and alcohol rehab program, but with it also, in the same building, there was a shelter. At the time it was the biggest shelter here, Union Rescue Mission.
[0:06:43] KM: Oh, okay, that was a shelter.
[0:06:44] AR: They've changed their men's program name now to Nehemiah House, so you may have heard that, but I got sucked into the world of homelessness because we were just cramming people in what felt like the basement of this building. We've got these few little people working in silos, and it's like, we're over here, 15, 20 miles across the county if you need help, but you've got people who land a job in other places and they can't get to the shelter 15, 20 miles away and back to work. So, they're pitching a tent, or they're sleeping in an alley, or they're sleeping in their car, or they're sleeping in a camper, or all those different situations.
I got aggravated with stationery assistance. Let's see, I had my maybe third back surgery while I was there. Recovery was taken a little bit longer than they liked, and they really didn't like the way that I approached things. If somebody needed something, I'm going to give it to them, I don't care. I'm not going to screen you like, "Do you need socks? Here they are." If we've got them, I'm going to give them.
[0:07:55] KM: Not based on how much you drank that day.
[0:07:58] AR: Exactly. So, I'll get, I'll get back to that in a second, on kind of when I started The Van. They let me go after that back surgery. So, I got healthy again, went to work at St. Francis House. St. Francis House contracts with the VA to homeless veterans. So, big facility there, and helping veterans get off the streets, but at the, at the same time, that's when I started doing outreach. I was in my car, I had like a 2009 Toyota Yaris that I had thrown newspapers out of the few years previously, and tiny little car, a little hatchback, and I would just cram.
I started emailing my friends, cough up your coats. If you have any extra coats, you have any pants, shoes, just give me the basics. Let me get out here at these folks and see what's happening. It just exploded on my face to be honest with you.
[0:08:55] KM: Really?
[0:08:56] AR: Yes. I, I didn't expect it. At the time, I got a few small writings published locally. I was starting to get a few TV interviews about homelessness and all of that. Then, right about the time I launched The Van, I went from the Yaris to a van. I got aggravated because I couldn't have enough stuff on me. I would run out of stuff and people would be asking, "Do you have this?" "Well, I do in my storage unit."
[0:09:21] KM: Are you still working at St. Francis House?
[0:09:23] AR: No, they let me go too.
[0:09:27] KM: I'll tell listeners before the interview when I read your stuff, you got fired from so many jobs, that I knew you were going to be an entrepreneur because that's like a prerequisite to be an entrepreneur. You got to get fired from a lot of jobs because you want to do things your way.
[0:09:37] AR: That's right.
[0:09:37] KM: Go ahead. You got fired from St. Francis; you're in your Yaris. Now, you've promoted to a van.
[0:09:42] AR: Yes. So, I was throwing newspapers all night, and then, I was trying to do this during the day. Initially, I didn't want a nonprofit. I did not want it to be that organized. I didn't want it to be a thing. I just wanted it to be people helping people. But it grew, people started throwing money at it, and I can't run all that through my personal stuff and take on the personal liability. So, I had people smarter than me going, Aaron you have to make a 501(c)(3), you have to remove liability from your personal life, you have to put this money in a business account instead of running it through your personal. So, we, we filed for our nonprofit status in early 2011. And by April that year, we got it. It's just been nuts ever since. That was the same year that I got invited out to do Dr. Phil.
[0:10:38] KM: Yeah, I didn't see that interview. Tell me about the Dr. Phil interview.
[0:10:41] AR: That was the craziest thing.
[0:10:42] KM: Really?
[0:10:43] AR: Oh my gosh. I'm just sitting there at home one night, and I got an email, and it was like, "We're the researchers for Dr. Phil and we're looking for a – wait, let me back up. It started with, okay, do you remember Ted Williams, the guy with the golden voice who was panhandling, and guy pulled up, and he was like, "Do the thing." And he was like, "Yeah, yeah."
[0:11:03] KM: In Little Rock?
[0:11:04] GM: No, he was a -–
[0:11:05] AR: He was in radio.
[0:11:06] GM: He wasn't in Little Rock.
[0:11:06] AR: No. He wasn't local.
[0:11:08] GM: He was a trained voice actor who did radio work for years and was homeless, and this was kind of in the early phases of like viral phone video. Somebody walked up to him and recorded him talking while he's clearly unhoused, looks disheveled, has a big sign where he's standing on a corner, and he starts talking in his radio voice, and it goes viral, I guess. So, he kind of gets lifted out of, out of his homelessness situation that way, I guess.
[0:11:37] AR: Yes. So then, Vicki Lawrence makes a video mocking him, it was very ugly. It was very mean and ugly. So then, I got someone on Twitter at the time. I'm not on there anymore. But someone was like, hey, this, here's a tweet from someone at AOL looking to interview a homeless advocate about Ted Williams. I was like, "Well, okay." I was like, "Hey, you need someone to talk to. I'll talk to you." So, that kind of exploded on AOL. That was my first kind of like broader exposure, I guess, you could say. Then, it was just a matter of time. I got the e-mail, like I said, "We're the researchers for Dr. Phil?" I was like, I looked at my wife at the time and said, "Can you believe the junk that comes into your e-mail?" I look at the URL and it's paramount.com. I'm like, "This can't really be real, but we'll see."
So, I replied and they were on the phone with me for about two hours immediately after we e-mailed. Then, she was like, can I fly you out here on Monday? This was like Saturday. I'm like, "What? Yeah. I mean, you're the Dr. Phil show. You can fly me anywhere you want; I don't care."
[0:12:55] KM: I prefer Jamaica, but I'll come there.
[0:12:56] AR: Yes, I'll come to LA, whatever. So, yeah, I flew out there. They put me up in the Renaissance, Hollywood, way up high, looking out the Hollywood side. It was really cool. People carrying my bags and I was freaked out about it. It was weird. But anyway, yes, just –
[0:13:15] KM: What? They do that?
[0:13:17] AR: But then, Vicki Lawrence wouldn't come on. So, they wanted me and Vicki Lawrence took kind of spar on the show. That was their goal. She wouldn't come on. So, honestly, I had two segments on the show. He spoke more than I did, but I did get the chance to express my one thing that I wish if I can – he's broadcast, what, 160 countries or something. If I can say something to every one of those people, it is that, the overwhelming majority of homeless people have never held a cardboard sign. So, I got the chance to say that on global television or whatever, you know. But it was cool, yes. He gave me 75 bucks to the hotel bar tab, and I showed up hungover, and pulled it off, so whatever. I don't drink anymore.
[0:14:03] GM: Sounds fun though.
[0:14:05] AR: It was fun.
[0:14:05] GM: The full Hollywood experience.
[0:14:06] KM: Seems like we all have to give up drinking eventually. All right. This is a great place to take a break. We've been speaking today with the big hearted, Mr. Aaron Reddin, founder of The Van, a grassroots, nonprofit out of Little Rock, Arkansas that advocates for the unsheltered, the homeless people, as we used to say. When we come back, we'll learn about The Van's good work, hear more stories from Aaron. As I said in the opening, it's raw, it's real, it's refreshingly human. You're going to get surprising statistics on the unsheltered population. Just like he said, most of them aren't holding signs. So, is it bad luck? Is it drug addiction or mental illness? Get ready to have your whole perspective shaken. We'll tell you the reason why panhandling has become so prominent across the U.S. We'll be right back.
[BREAK]
[0:14:54] GM: You're listening to Up In Your Business with Kerry McCoy. A production of FlagandBanner.com. In 1975, with only $400, Kerry founded Arkansas Flag and Banner. Since then, the business has grown and changed, along with Kerry's experience and leadership knowledge. In 1995, she embraced the Internet and rebranded her company as simply FlagandBanner.com. In 2004, she became an early blogger. Since then, she has founded the nonprofit Friends of Dreamland Ballroom, began publishing her magazine, Brave. And in 2016, branched out into this very radio show, YouTube channel, and podcast.
In 2020, Kerry McCoy Enterprises acquired OurCornerMarket.com, an online company specializing in American made plaques, signage and memorials. In 2021, Flag and Banner expanded to a satellite office in Miami, Florida, where first generation immigrants keep the art of sewing alive and flags made in America. Telling American made stories, selling American made flags, the FlagandBanner.com. Back to you Kerry.
[EPISODE CONTINUED]
[0:15:58] KM: We're speaking today with Mr. Aaron Reddin, founder of The Van, a mobile lifeline to the unsheltered in Little Rock, Arkansas and beyond. You said before the break that you were going to tell us the story about the man who you tried to give socks to, and he told you you'd had a drink.
[0:16:13] AR: Yes.
[0:16:16] KM: And it kind of was a light bulb for you for when you wanted to start The Van, I think.
[0:16:19] AR: It really was. I was in my car. I had some food leftovers that someone had given. I had some socks, it was cold. I was at Asher and University by, you know, over in front of where Casa Bonita used to be. I pulled up on a guy who was very obviously chronically homeless. "Hey, man. Do you need – do you need something to eat? You need some fresh socks?" He says, "Well, yeah, but I had some beers earlier." I was just like, "What's that got to do with it, man? But do you need some socks?" He's like, "Well, you don't care that I've been drinking." I'm like, "Bro, no, I just want your feet to be okay. I just want you to have something in your belly. Do you have another beer? I'll trade you if it'll make you feel better." I don't know what – that was a real light bulb moment for me and how I wanted to approach helping people. It turned into just – our little motto is like, no rules, no apologies, just help.
[0:17:25] KM: - Yeah, stop the dog and pony shows. No rules.
[0:17:28] AR: Stop making people perform to –
[0:17:31] KM: No rules. No, what?
[0:17:33] AR: No apologies. Just help.
[0:17:33] KM: No apologies, just help. That's a great slogan.
[0:17:36] AR: Thanks.
[0:17:37] KM: Starting The Van, it was born, like you said, in your little Chevy, Yaris, or something. Then, you got a van and you wore the wheels off the van, wouldn't go in reverse anymore.
[0:17:48] AR: That's right.
[0:17:49] KM: So, you put a Facebook post up and said, "I need a van."
[0:17:55] AR: Yeah. Well, a guy from, let's see, someone in Benton gave us that first one. It used to be the delivery van for the crown shop, and then, a guy gave us another one out of Searcy, and we wore it out. So then, about, I don't know, eight years ago, we raised the money to just pay cash for a brand new one.
[0:18:13] KM: How many vans you have?
[0:18:15] AR: Well, I still have the first two. I don't know. I'm kind of hoarding them. I
guess. I don't know.
[0:18:21] KM: Do they drive?
[0:18:23] AR: No, no, they're toast.
[0:18:24] KM: Cannibalize them?
[0:18:25] AR: They're toast, they're just monuments, I guess.
[0:18:27] KM: They're monuments.
[0:18:29] AR: What do you mean? I don't know. Almost made them a chicken coop.
[0:18:33] KM: This guy is so sympathetic/
[0:18:34] GM: Now we're talking.
[0:18:34] KM: He can't even get rid of a van. It’s like, "Oh, my van."
[0:18:38] GM: It's a monument.
[0:18:38] AR: Don't take my van.
[0:18:39] GM: A monument to the work.
[0:18:41] AR: This is going to be my, when they fire me from my own organization, it can be my severance package.
[0:18:47] GM: Keep the vans.
[0:18:50] KM: Describe a day.
[0:18:51] AR: Describe a day. This year?
[0:18:55] KM: Today, yeah.
[0:18:57] AR: Today.
[0:18:57] KM: Well, not today because you came here, but describe an average day.
[0:18:59] AR: You know, they're all insanely different. I have to spend a tremendous amount of time at the doctor's office now. I have to have weekly nerve blocks and other very intense treatments that I have to have a driver for. So, I am really relying on my team right now. So, it really went from a guy in a van with a dog to a lot of other people, somewhere along the way, open it up and was like, I've got to have other people helping me keep this thing out on the streets. So yes, I mean, I'm either at the doctor for treatment or going out. We've got a farm as well, so –
[0:19:40] KM: Is that to make food, to grow food for the homeless?
[0:19:43] AR: We do, and also, the long-term goal is to create more employment opportunities with even day labor or long-term work opportunities.
[0:19:52] KM: Well, I think, I thought most – excuse me, I thought most of your people were volunteers.
[0:19:57] AR: They are.
[0:19:58] KM: How many actual employees do you have?
[0:20:00] AR: I have two employees; both have lived experience with homelessness. So, our goal is to employ folks. I mean, you're not getting off the streets without an income.
[0:20:08] KM: Oh, I see. You want to employ – get people employed working in the farm.
[0:20:12] AR: Yep, I want to create unconventional work opportunities for people that are in these unconventional sleeping situations.
[0:20:20] KM: Whose farm is it?
[0:20:21] AR: It's ours.
[0:20:22] KM: Was it your family farm?
[0:20:23] AR: No, we bought it, the organization bought it. So, we had started gardening behind an old crappy warehouse that we rented. And then that kind of kept growing. It was called The Field. Then, eventually, we bought five acres kind of back behind there. So, we changed the name to Back Five Fields. But yeah, now we've got 10 acres, paid off, hallelujah.
[0:20:49] KM: In Little Rock?
[0:20:50] AR: It's in North Little Rock.
[0:20:52] KM: Are you in Little Rock or North Little Rock?
[0:20:53] AR: So, The Van's, warehouse, and offices are in Southwest Little Rock on 61st Street. And then, our farm is in North Little Rock. So, kind of both, yeah.
[0:21:04] KM: Do you service both areas?
[0:21:05] AR: We do.
[0:21:06] KM: And Fayetteville?
[0:21:07] AR: No.
[0:21:08] KM: Conway?
[0:21:09] AR: No. I mean, if someone's extremely desperate, we'll go outside of Pulaski County, but we try. In the early days, when I was maybe like 30, and thought I could conquer everything, I wanted to launch more vans in more places. Let's do this everywhere we can. So, we tried in Atlanta, and I had a guy really mess me over.
[0:21:27] KM: Atlanta, Georgia?
[0:21:27] AR: Mm-hmm. We started one in Russellville called The Russ Bus.
[0:21:31] KM: That's right.
[0:21:32] AR: We started the Mission Machine in Searcy. Both of those are still going strong. 2016, we spun them off as their own nonprofits, give them a local board, local control of their finances. I didn't have to deal with their administrative stuff anymore. Time to fly.
[0:21:46] KM: Are they doing good?
[0:21:47] AR: They're doing great, yes.
[0:21:48] KM: So, you could teach other communities to do this?
[0:21:53] AR: I could try. I've never really formulized it. Is that a word? I don't know.
[0:21:59] GM: You don't have a model.
[0:22:00] AR: I don't have a model. I've never really – it's all so grassroots. So, I have thought about doing, I don't want to launch anymore, not under our umbrella. But I will if someone wants to cover, you know, what it costs for me to leave our work for a little bit of time, I will come to help –
[0:22:18] KM: Do you, do you work with our house?
[0:22:20] AR: Some. We serve a little bit different populations of homelessness. So, you'll hear people speak of sheltered and unsheltered homelessness. So, you've got people that are in the shelter system, to which we have a thousand plus here in town in the shelter system. Then, we're probably getting really close to that number as far as people that are sleeping outside as well.
[0:22:44] KM: And why do they not want to be in shelters because there's not enough or because they don't like being in a community?
[0:22:48] AR: There's definitely not enough shelter beds. So, even if everyone in the whole state said, "I'll go to any shelter right now. I don't care about the proselytization. I don't care about the shelter fees. I'll take any bed. There will still be a thousand Arkansans sitting outside. So, there's not shelter space for –
[0:23:07] KM: If you had shelter space for it, would they all go?
[0:23:10] AR: It would probably depend on the arrangement. Not everyone wants to be in a congregate shelter, and I don't blame them. But you've got people with pets, you've got people with mental illness. Shelters charge fees. A lot of people don't realize that.
[0:23:23] KM: I heard you say that. Shelters charge fees?
[0:23:26] AR: They're nominal, but it's still – here's just an example. I had a friend one time who was in local shelter, got a job, good job, but he also had a car note, and so he's trying to build it, he's trying to build, but he had to make his car payment so he could get to work. So, he comes back to the shelter with his pay stub, his receipts, everything ,and shows them like I don't have the money to pay for tonight, but this is why, and they still put him out.
[0:23:59] KM: Rule are rules.
[0:24:00] AR: I guess so. Not my world.
[0:24:04] KM: So, how many – I read, you get a hundred calls a day.
[0:24:07] AR: Oh god, I don't know. In the winter time for sure. Yeah, wintertime is crazy.
[0:24:12] KM: So, funding, you have an annual budget of around $300,000, is that right?
[0:24:17] AR: Yeah, a little over $300 probably.
[0:24:18] KM: And it mostly comes from donations or all donations?
[0:24:23] AR: Ninety-nine percent is private-donor based. We do get –
[0:24:25] KM: So, how do people give if they want to give to you?
[0:24:28] AR: Our website, itsthevan.org. So, last year, our budget was comprised of 2,500 unique donors. So, it's a lot of people that give a little and a few people that give a lot. So, yeah.
[0:24:47] KM: So, I love this where you put in quotes, "Shop the van." So, what you really do, if I understand it, is you take the van to the people, you go to camps, bridges, alleyways, woods, you probably know them all. They see the van pull up, it's now painted bright yellow, your new one. And they're like, "The yellow van is here," and they run out there, and you give them food, water, clothing and hygiene products. How do you talk to them about job opportunities?
[0:25:12] AR: That's, I wish that I had more time. I wish that I had the ability to put social workers on the streets to do that side of it. We kind of do that when the weather, the weather dictates a lot, and the work can be a little bit seasonal. So, in wintertime, it's very urgent. It's very – you have to get people in or you're going to lose life and limb. The rest of the year, you spend making sure people have the basics, getting to know them, earning their trust, keep coming back, things like that. So, yeah, there's not a lot of time to try and do that with everyone.
We do an unsheltered count every two years for HUD. Then, there's a sheltered count annually, but we only count people outside every two years. So, we count everyone we can in 24 hours' time to try to minimize any duplication. And we were able to find two years ago, we found, I think it was just a little over 600 people in 24 hours in the metro that were sleeping outside.
[0:26:22] KM: Way below the national average. Little Rock's national – Little Rock's population, homeless population is like way, way below. It's 8% of 10,000, and the national is 23% out of 10,000.
[0:26:41] AR: Wow.
[0:26:42] KM: Yes, I think that's because of you.
[0:26:45] AR: I don't know about that.
[0:26:46] KM: I do know about that. I did a lot of research. You think driving around here that there's a lot of homeless people, Little Rock has a very small homeless population per capita.
[0:26:57] AR: It's growing, though. It's definitely rising for seniors and that's very worrisome.
[0:27:01] KM: It is weird.
[0:27:03] AR: Seniors are running out of money and they're being priced out of the rental market.
[0:27:06] KM: Tell us about the 97-year-old woman.
[0:27:08] AR: Oh gosh, she's still kicking.
[0:27:11] KM: There is a 97-year-old woman on the streets.
[0:27:14] AR: We can't properly ID her. She has a little bit of dementia.
[0:27:18] KM: I bet.
[0:27:19] AR: Yes, but she's the toughest human being I've ever known in my entire life. We believe that she landed here after Katrina.
[0:27:28] KM: She's been here homeless that long.
[0:27:30] AR: Twenty years, yeah. I've known her 10 to 12. So, we can't properly ID her. The PDs have tried. The PDs have tried working with the PDs in cities.
[0:27:45] KM: What are PDs? Oh, police department.
[0:27:46] AR: Police departments. In cities that she talks of being in before, they've tried contacting them, you know, trying to get proper ID.
[0:27:55] KM: Why do you care?
[0:27:55] AR: The Morgan Nick Foundation has tried to help us.
[0:27:56] KM: Just so if she dies, you'll know who to contact?
[0:27:58] AR: No, because we can't get her inside without an ID.
[0:28:01] KM: Oh.
[0:28:03] AR: We can't even get her food stamps. I mean, we can't get her anything.
[0:28:07] KM: She lives in Little Rock or North Little Rock?
[0:28:10] AR: She's in North Little Rock. She's been in Little Rock too, though. Tough as boot leather. Yeah, we can't get a birth certificate. She was born before Social Security cards were even issued. She'll rattle off a Social Security number, but when you run it, it comes back to a guy who immigrated here from Afghanistan. So, it's a number that's in her noggin, but it's not accurate.
[0:28:33] GM: Wow, interesting.
[0:28:35] AR: Yeah, yeah. Probably born in a house, no birth certificate. I mean, where are you going to find that –
[0:28:38] KM: Probably.
[0:28:39] AR: – 97 years later. So yes, there's absolutely nothing available for her other than people like us that come up and give them some food.
[0:28:50] KM: The human will to live is unbelievable, isn't it?
[0:28:53] AR: Oh. yeah.
[0:28:53] KM: All right. This is a great place to take a break. We've been speaking today with the big hearted, Mr. Aaron Reddin, founder of The Van, a grassroot, nonprofit out of Little Rock, Arkansas that advocates for the unsheltered people. Next, we're going to talk about questions from our listeners. Why is homelessness getting worse? Is it bad to give homeless people money? And what is the biggest misconception about homelessness? We'll dig deep into the surprising stats of the homeless population. You've heard a little bit of it now. We'll be right
back.
[BREAK]
[0:29:23] GM: Part of Kerry McCoy Enterprises is ourcornermarket.com, the perfect online shopping site for everything you need to strengthen your business's image, or beautify your home and landscaping. You can browse through products, like custom plaques and bronze, or aluminum, business signage, address plaques to dress up your home, or apartment complex, memorial stones and markers, even for your beloved pets, logo mats and countless other items. Please visit ourcornermarket.com today and start shopping.
[EPISODE CONTINUED]
[0:29:57] KM: We've been speaking today with Mr. Aaron Reddin, founder of The Van, a local nonprofit that helps the unsheltered population year-round with clothing distribution, meals, job opportunities, all in and around Little Rock, Arkansas and North Little Rock, Arkansas. So, let's talk about why panhandling is no longer banned because everybody is like, "Why doesn't the mayor? Why doesn't the governor do something about the panhandling?" We all remember when all of a sudden, we looked up and every corner was covered with panhandlers. You said earlier, most of the homeless people are not holding up signs.
[0:30:30] AR: Yeah, absolutely
[0:30:31] KM: So, in 2015, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled nationwide that laws banning or restricting panhandling, especially in public spaces are unconstitutional, because asking for money is a form of protected speech. It was the Reed versus Gilbert case that ruled homeless people have the right under the First Amendment, thus making it difficult for any city to enforce any panhandling laws.
[0:30:57] AR: Yes, First Amendment. -
[0:30:59] KM: First Amendment.
[0:30:59] AR: Got to love it.
[0:30:59] KM: Got to love it. This brings up a question from a listener. - Is homelessness getting worse?
[0:31:04] AR: Yes, without a doubt.
[0:31:05] KM: Not just over visibly. And is it bad to give homeless people money?
[0:31:09] AR: In my opinion, no. I tend to believe that people know their needs better than I do, and they don't need me to dictate, here's all this stuff you may or may not need. Here's a blessing bag of things you may or may not have a place to store. What do you need? Do you need a few bucks? You need a few bucks.
[0:31:25] KM: So, their argument on the other side is that they're going to go get buy a liquor.
[0:31:29] AR: Or you probably were too. Not you. Not you. I mean –
[0:31:32] KM: Oh, no, me, I will. If I was homeless, I'd be buying booze.
[0:31:39] AR: I am of the strong opinion that homelessness leads to substance abuse and addiction as much as substance abuse and addiction leads to homelessness.
[0:31:47] KM: I would imagine.
[0:31:49] AR: I see people reach desperation and what are you going to do?
[0:31:52] GM: Take the edge off.
[0:31:54] AR: Take the edge off and try to get to tomorrow.
[0:31:56] KM: What is the biggest misconception about homelessness?
[0:31:59] AR: That they're all beggars. Some of the hardest working
people that I have ever met in my life. Look, I love hard work.
[0:32:06] KM: You sure do.
[0:32:07] AR: I hate laziness and I wouldn't do this much hard work if I thought all these people were so lazy. I promise you. But yeah, everyone thinks the worst, and it's not always the case. So, I just, I encourage people to get to know folks, stop and have a conversation. If you wonder if someone's being a scammy or whatever, talk to them. Maybe they are, maybe they're not.
[0:32:38] GM: It's one of the biggest lessons I ever learned interacting with on house people, especially in like places like Main Street where I walk a lot. You just have to talk to them and then you get a really good read on who they are because they're just people
[0:32:49] AR: That's it. And a lot of people that panhandle, a lot of that money goes to hotel rooms, so you can get a shower, so you can have some rest, microwave something to eat, things like that.
[0:33:01] KM: Is it dangerous to go to these camps and under these bridges. Not for you because you're a man. But would it be for a woman to go under these bridges to help?
[0:33:12] AR: I have women that go out in The Van.
[0:33:13] KM: You do?
[0:33:14] AR: I mean, I tried to always have a man and a woman, because you – a lot of our work is done in the evening or late night. You're sometimes waking people up, you're startling people, you're maybe even scaring people. I've been screamed at, cussed at. I mean, I'm a big hairy dude pulling up in a van, and here's a woman on a porch of an abandoned house, and, "Hey, dude. Do you need something to eat?" And she's waking up from her sleep. Why is this guy up here coming at me?
[0:33:49] KM: Is there a lot of rape and violence in these camps, more so?
[0:33:54] AR: There's not any more violence than there is in the house community.
[0:33:57] KM: Is there not?
[0:33:58] AR: I don't think so. I mean, if you watch all the violence in town, I mean, it's usually at a house. I mean –
[0:34:07] GM: Domestic, yes.
[0:34:08] AR: It's usually. I mean, there's, you know, things might go to fist to cuffs every now and then out there, but it's not as bad as a lot of people think.
[0:34:19] KM: When you pull up, do you find any people that have deceased?
[0:34:23] AR: Yes.
[0:34:24] KM: For all different reasons?
[0:34:25] AR: We have, yeah. I've lost a lot of friends out there.
[0:34:27] KM: Is it usually because of the cold, or is it because of health concerns, or is it because of –
[0:34:32] AR: That, a lot, if you're chronically homeless, you're really lucky to get out of your fifties, really lucky to get out of your fifties.
[0:34:40] KM: Really?
[0:34:40] AR: Yeah.
[0:34:40] KM: So, that's the average lifespan.
[0:34:42] AR: In my experience, here locally, yes. Now, I don't have data for that, but we rarely see people that are chronically out there make it out of their fifties.
[0:34:52] KM: Here's the age group breakdown. That in 2024, they did the age group breakdown.
[0:34:58] AR: Is this locally or nationally?
[0:35:00] KM: Nationally.
[0:35:00] AR: Okay.
[0:35:01] KM: Nineteen percent under 18, under 18 years old, 19%.
[0:35:08] AR: The last time I checked on the – just local like North Little Rock, Ms. Bobby Riggins told me there was 700 in the North Little Rock school system.
[0:35:16] KM: So, the two largest growing segments are families and over 65.
[0:35:25] AR: I believe it.
[0:35:26] KM: They're the two largest growing and it comes from mental illness, substance abuse, economic instability, and bad luck. Just downright bad luck.
[0:35:38] AR: Things are getting worse.
[0:35:40] KM: It's hard to get out of it. So, one of the things I thought was interesting is that, about 25% of the people out there have either overlapping mental illness or substance abuse. Wouldn't you have thought it was higher than that, Gray? I would have. Seventy-five percent of the people that are homeless are that are –
[0:36:01] AR: Are not shooting dope.
[0:36:03] KM: Are not shooting dope.
[0:36:05] AR: Yeah, I know. I don't know how to – I'm so glad you're saying this on, on the show, because I mean, I don't know how to convince the public any harder that everyone out here isn't awful. I know as many awful housed people as I know – I mean, 10% of every population can ruin things for everyone else.
[0:36:24] KM: So, over the last decade, the national homeless population has swelled by 40%. It is now the highest level on record. What do you think the reason for that is?
[0:36:32] AR: Housing costs. The median home price in this country is now over $400,000 and the average home price in this country is now over half a million dollars I'd be still living in a camper on our farm if it wasn't for the GI Bill and my ability to get a zero percent or zero down home loan.
[0:36:53] KM: Key factors, 20% goes to mental illness, 16% goes to substance abuse. Those are on the high level. It could be anywhere from 25% to 35%. Economic hardships, poverty, unemployment, housing unaffordability widely regarded as a primary driver. Many profiles show people with steady jobs are still unable to afford rent due to rising housing costs, low wages, or sudden income loss. I was just shocked to hear that.
[0:37:21] AR: I'm not at all. I'm not at all. That's the reality that we see. If we're able to help you get disability, was it $700 to $900 a month.
[0:37:33] KM: You still can't afford housing.
[0:37:34] AR: You can't afford rent. You can't afford to rent anywhere
[0:37:37] KM: So, bad luck or situational shocks, events like eviction, illness, job loss, domestic violence, or ending stays in an institutional setting like prison, foster care, or treatment facilities These disruptive life events often push people over the edge. While harder to quantify bad luck is understood as a significant residual category when no underlying disorder for mental illness or substance abuse is present. So that's most people out there.
[0:38:04] AR: There's a lot of normal people out there.
[0:38:07] KM: Can you ever get off? What's the solution?
[0:38:10] AR: You have to have an income somehow.
[0:38:12] KM: Do they have skills?
[0:38:13] AR: Some do, but some are aging.
[0:38:14] KM: That would get you more money.
[0:38:16] AR: I mean, if they're aging, it's harder to get the easier jobs to get, which are labor. So, then, if you've been out there for any length of time, you've probably had your backpack or your tent ransacked or stolen, so you've probably lost any forms of ID. The hardest part for me to employ people on our farm is proper identification to appease the IRS. ID and social security card. You got to have this to get that and that to get this. Now, you got to have an ID to get in the federal building right over here to get to even talk to people. You got to have an ID to talk to them in person about Social Security, about your disability.
[0:38:53] KM: Why can't you get them an ID?
[0:38:54] AR: Well, if they've lost all forms of ID, birth certificate.
[0:38:58] GM: If you need an ID, you need a Social Security card.
[0:39:01] KM: You need an ID to get an ID.
[0:39:02] AR: You need an ID to get an ID, or you've got to have an address. You've got to prove that you're a resident. Nearly one in five people experiencing homelessness are children under 18. Young adults are 18 to 24, make up 8%. Middle-aged adults, 25 to 54, compromise the majority being 70%. Older adults, 55 and up are 20% –
[0:39:22] GM: And rising.
[0:39:22] KM: And rising fast.
[0:39:25] AR: Fast, fast.
[0:39:25] KM: Fast, fast.
[0:39:27] AR: It's sad. I mean, why are we letting our meemaws stay out there?
[0:39:31] KM: What's, oh.
[0:39:33] AR: We are, though.
[0:39:33] KM: It's a sad way to say it.
[0:39:34] AR: But I know a lot of meemaws that are out there. I do. There are some things on the horizon in our community.
[0:39:41] KM: The city has made some housing.
[0:39:43] AR: They're slowly working on.
[0:39:45] KM: It's not come to fruition.
[0:39:45] AR: There's not anything available through the city.
[0:39:48] KM: I thought they made some mini houses or some tiny.
[0:39:51] GM: That's not the city though/
[0:39:52] AR: Well, the city is doing one and Pulaski County is doing one. So, the city is doing one on Russellville. It will have. I don't remember how many units, but it will also – the good thing about that one is it will, it will have an emergency shelter type, a permanent type of, you know, do you need somewhere to go right now? Here's a place. That will be limited though. But yes, that'll be on Russellville over, kind of between the jail and the compassion center. Then, Pulaski County with Providence Park is doing one.
[0:40:30] GM: That's the one I've heard of.
[0:40:32] AR: Yeah, they're doing one in the county, kind of based off of a really huge one that's grown down in Austin, Texas. So, they've kind of modeled off of that. It's called Community First. Their initial goal is like 400 units, but it's not going to solve the problem. I've spoken with their founder, director, and she knows that I'm still having to have this conversation. Like, this is not going to fix it.
[0:41:02] KM: So, what is the fix of the problem?
[0:41:04] AR: Housing. Housing. We need – we got to have more. It's got to be available for everyone.
[0:41:07] KM: Nobody wants it by their home. Let's just be honest.
[0:41:10] AR: No one wants it by their home.
[0:41:11] KM: I don't want it by my home. I'm scared.
[0:41:14] AR: No one will accept a sex offender.
[0:41:16] KM: Yeah.
[0:41:16] AR: I'm not here to advocate for sex offender. Don't get me wrong. But there's nowhere for them to go, so they're wandering our streets.
[0:41:23] KM: Really?
[0:41:24] AR: There is not a shelter around that will take someone that's a sex offender.
[0:41:26] KM: Yeah. Well, that's why I don't want to be living in a camp.
[0:41:30] AR: I mean, I hear people, people are like, "Well, let them die out there." I get it. I get it. Look, I had people do some stuff to me as a kid. I'm with you, but do we want them prowling around the streets all night, or do we want them at an address registered like we want them, like we've set up?
[0:41:51] GM: Right, so that we know where they are.
[0:41:53] AR: What do you do?
[0:41:54] GM: Lock them in jail? I mean –
[0:41:57] AR: I will meet their immediate needs. There's not really much else I can do. I can try to make sure that you don't freeze to death out here. I think a lack of empathy is the absolute biggest problem in our country. We don't seem to care about people's welfare in this country anymore until something directly impacts us or those that are immediately in our sphere, whatever. So, I don't know. I think we treat people pretty ugly, and we don't have a lot of space for redemption.
[0:42:33] KM: So, do you think that being out in the thick of it makes you more or less religious in belief in a higher power?
[0:42:43] AR: I have hope, but I don't have a lot of faith anymore.
[0:42:48] KM: Well said.
[0:42:49] AR: I don't know if that – I hope that makes some kind of sense.
[0:42:52] KM: I think a lot of people feel that way. They have hope, they want to
believe?
[0:42:55] AR: I want to, but it's the amount of suffering that I see it makes it hard to believe that there is a power so great that could alleviate it and –
[0:43:07] GM: Chooses not to.
[0:43:08] AR: – and we're not doing it. People are still freezing to death. This past winter that I know of seven amputations from frostbite, things like that. So, why is this, why is it like this?
[0:43:21] KM: So then, they're in a wheelchair and they're homeless in a wheelchair?
[0:43:23] AR: Yes, and you cannot get into any shelter if you're in a wheelchair or use a walker. And people don't realize that either.
[0:43:29] KM: Wow. We've been speaking today with the founder of The Van, Mr. Aaron Reddin. If you're just tuning into the show, The Van is a grassroot, nonprofit out of Little Rock Arkansas that advocates for the unsheltered people. So, you have grown The Van, you have a new building.
[0:43:44] AR: Well, we bought our warehouse six years ago after renting for, I don't know. too long. So, we had our farm. I initially started with five acres. Two years ago, I bought the farm next door, 13 and a half acres. So, we were at 18 and a half. I just sold off eight and a half acres to make enough money to pay the farm off completely at 10 acres, pay the headquarters down to about $100,000 because we are doing everything we can to create a permanent winter weather emergency shelter.
So, we've done this. I've been doing emergency shelters in the winter since before I even started The Van, and it is a big problem. We have snow and ice, and people have to go somewhere, or they're going to die. They're going to lose limbs like we were talking about. So, we've used church facilities, we've used community centers through COVID shutdowns. We use the Hall of Industry at the fairgrounds. Wherever we can cram people in, we've done it, but we're tired of having to search for places, make them work, haul in everything, every weather event, haul it out, every weather event, all those things. So last, I don't know, December-ish, we kicked off fundraising. We raised; we're right at $275,000. But the more we've gotten into this, the more I have found that this is going to be a seven-figure undertaking.
[0:45:13] KM: I know, isn't it crazy how expensive everything is?
[0:45:16] AR:-So, the biggest hurdles are new construction for this is never going to get through planning and city councils. It's just not. I mean, let's be honest.
[0:45:28] KM: So, what do you do?
[0:45:30] AR: We're going to go to the county. We're going out on the county. We're going to build or buy, but we're shopping like maniacs. When I leave here, I'm going to the county and looking at a building.
[0:45:39] KM: So, you're going to keep your farm in town in North Little Rock. You're going to keep your big building in Little Rock where you keep your vans, and you're going to buy another piece of property in the county because they don't have building laws as strict, and you're going to put – but then, you're going to have to shuttle people out there.
[0:45:53] AR: Well, we're already shuttling. I mean, people are scattered from Chanel to –
[0:45:57] KM: But you only have one working van.
[0:45:59] AR: Well, I've got a bus.
[0:46:00] KM: Oh, you do?
[0:46:01] AR: Yes. So, we shuttle everyone to there.
[0:46:03] KM: How many do you shuttle in there when a storm is coming in?
[0:46:06] AR: Depends on the severity of the storm and the length. If it goes on for days and days, we'll increase by about 20% per day. We've been open for a week, a little more, sometimes at a time, and 100, 200 people will come in, but there's a lot of people that won't.
[0:46:23] KM: And it stays vacant when there's not a storm. It's not going to be permanent.
[0:46:27] AR: It's not going to be a permanent shelter. No. We'll bring people there, snow and ice events, or dry, and below 25. Now, that's the number we've used in the past. I would like to bring that up to freezing or below if we have a permanent facility. During the rest of the year, it'll be used to process foods and stuff for our farm So, it'll be – it's going to be multi-use facility/ We'll have a thrift store for the vans excesses and impracticalities that we have. It's got to go somewhere. People pass away; family drops off everything.
[0:46:57] KM: Oh, they do?
[0:46:58] AR: Yard sale is over; people come and drop off everything.
[0:47:01] KM: Do you like that?
[0:47:02] AR: Right now, no because I don't need high heels, I don't need a million purses.
[0:47:08] GM: You need – it takes processing.
[0:47:10] AR: Exactly. But what I can do is create a little thrift store and all of that stuff can go to support the emergency shelter. So, it's all going, most charities that you drop off to, their excesses and impracticalities are going to Texas, to a place called Charity Shoes and Clothing. They buy it by the pound. It's just – I don't know what they do with it. They recycle textiles. They take some stuff overseas, stuff like that. I would rather turn that money into affordable stuff because it's good stuff. It's good stuff.
[0:47:41] KM: Is it?
[0:47:42] AR: Yeah, it's good stuff. It's just not practical for those that we serve.
[0:47:45] KM: You're such an entrepreneur Who knew? Did you know?
[0:47:48] AR: No, no, no, no, no. I barely got through high school.
[0:47:51] KM: Well, you really are. Me too. I don't know what that is sometimes, but an entrepreneur's prerequisite, like we said at the beginning of the show is you got to get fired from a lot of jobs and you got to be a high-school dropout almost, and then, hope you don't get homeless.
[0:48:07] AR: Exactly. I feel like I'm a little bit more creative than I am entrepreneurial.
[0:48:12] KM: I think they go hand in hand.
[0:48:12] AR: I'm not trying to build business. I'm not trying to make money.
[0:48:15] KM: Yes, you are. You're building. It's creativity. People don't realize how creative business is. People always say to me, You're so creative" and I go, "No, I'm really not. I don't do anything creative." And then, they go, "Business is creative," and then I go, "You're right."
[0:48:25] AR: If it's unique.
[0:48:26] GM: Creative problem solving .
[0:48:28] AR: Yes, absolutely.
[0:48:29] KM: You're a great problem solver.
[0:48:30] AR: Thanks.
[0:48:31] KM: Are you burned out?
[0:48:33] AR: Close, physically.
[0:48:35] KM: What's your continuation plan?
[0:48:38] AR: So, right now, I'm in so much medical treatment every week and it doesn't appear that that's going to stop anytime soon, because there's no cure for this disease. It is the most painful incurable disease known to the human body. Its nickname is the suicide disease. It's bad, it's incurable, and it's hellacious. It really is.
[0:49:01] KM: It's a nerve problem, and devs are just –
[0:49:03] AR: It's shut down. It could shut down your circulation to parts of your body, different things like that.
[0:49:09] KM: You're so young.
[0:49:10] AR: Forty-three.
[0:49:11] KM: Yes. You've only just began.
[0:49:15] AR: Right now, I am, I'm looking at that right now to be honest with you.
[0:49:19] KM: So, what are you going to do? Is there anybody like you that's passionate as you are that you feel like you could turn the reins over? One of these guys that was homeless once before?
[0:49:26] AR: I'm going to find someone. I'm going to find someone. I mean, I've built the assets, right? So, I feel like I have a great tool bag to turn over to someone at some point.
[0:49:34] KM: And you can be on the board.
[0:49:35] AR: And I'll stay on the board. Exactly. You already know. I'll stay on the board, kind of help on days when I'm not in treatment, I'll go and participate to my body's ability.
[0:49:44] KM: Use your experiential wisdom to tell them, "Wait, oh, I've done that before. Oh, that doesn't work. Oh, that does work." Well, when you said Aaron, "Somebody'll show up when I'm ready to go. That is a leap of faith. It's there.
[0:49:57] AR: They're out there. I've been considering my succession for a few years now because I, I didn't do all this work to just for it to fizzle. So, I've known that I was aging, but I mean.
[0:50:12] KM: You never knew you're going to age that fast.
[0:50:13] AR: Yeah, and I didn't know that I was going to end up with this crap in my body from top to bottom either.
[0:50:18] KM: Well, we'll figure it out. It probably get figured out in the next 10 years. I'm telling you; modern medicine is unbelievable these days. All right. Before we go, I want to read something your friend says about you, which I think is really nice. Little Rock musician, Mark Curie. Curie, is that –
[0:50:33] AR: Mark Currie.
[0:50:33] KM: Currie.
[0:50:34] AR: Yeah, I love him.
[0:50:34] KM: Yeah, he loves you too. He's quoted saying about the issue. I see him as a leader, but it's more than that. He's the kind of leader who inspires and calls us to be our better selves. Rather than just telling people where to go or what to do, he makes you want to be a better version of yourself.
[0:50:52] AR: Dang.
[0:50:53] KM: That's good, isn't it?
[0:50:54] AR: I love that guy.
[0:50:56] KM: We've been speaking with Mr. Aaron Reddin, a relentless advocate for the unsheltered and the founder of The Van, a grassroots, nonprofit out of Little Rock, Arkansas, whose approach to our homeless brothers and sisters has made a huge difference in our state's unhoused population, which is below the national average, which I believe is because of him. He likes to say The Van is 100% relational and 0% programmatic. And I would like to say, it works. It's raw, it's real, and it's refreshingly human. Thank you, Aaron for coming on and sharing your story and the surprising stories of the homelessness. Here's a U.S. desk set for you. There's a U.S. and an Arkansas, and I'm going to put your marine and there before you leave today. You get a marine flag. You need one of those.
[0:51:43] AR: Oh, that's awesome. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me up and let me talk about the work. I appreciate it so much. I really do.
[0:51:49] GM: I appreciate your time.
[0:51:49] KM: You're welcome.
[0:51:49] GM: It's very illuminating. It was really great.
[0:51:52] KM: It's really illuminating. This show was recorded in the historic Taborian Hall in downtown Little Rock, Arkansas and made possible by the good works of FlagandBanner.com, Mr. Tom Wood, our audio engineer, Mr. Jonathan Hankins, our videographer, Miss Delora DeVore, our production manager, and my co-host, Mr. Grady McCoy IV aka Son Gray. To our listeners, I'd like to thank you for spending time with us. We hope you heard or learn something that's been inspiring or enlightening, and that's it, whatever that is, will help you up your business, your independence, or your life. I'm Kerry McCoy and I'll see you next time on Up in your Business. Until then, be brave and keep it up.
[OUTRO]
[0:52:31] GM: You've been listening to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. For links to resources you heard discussed on today's show, go to FlagandBanner.com, select radio and choose today's guest. If you’d like to sponsor this show or any show, contact me gray@flagandbanner.com. All interviews are recorded and posted the following week. Stay informed of exciting, upcoming guests by subscribing to our YouTube channel or podcast, wherever you like to listen. Kerry’s goal is simple, to help you, live the American dream.
[END]
