Guest Compilation 1
National Spotlight
Every one of the guests in this episode have spent time in the national spotlight due to their accomplishments and accolades:
Josh Hill: Winner of thousands of dollars and many consecutive games on the hit game show Jeopardy.
Kevin Kresse: Chosen as the sculptor for a statue of Johnny Cash for display in Washington D.C.
Donnie Ferneau: Local restauranteur featured on national food programs.
Hoops Green: The process for becoming a Harlem Globetrotter.
Wade Rathke: The director and establishing force behind the ACORN national activist organization.
Ray Rodgers: What is it like to be in the corner of a world champion?
Will Trice: Our local director for the Rep remembers the actors he's worked with and the Tony Awards he's won.
Keith Jackson & Walt Coleman: A Super Bowl champion and the one of the most respected refs in the NFL.
TRANSCRIPT
EPISODE 480
[INTRODUCTION]
[00:00:09] GM: Welcome to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy, a production of flagandbanner.com. Through storytelling and conversational interviews, this weekly radio show and podcast offers listeners an insider’s view into commonalities of successful people and the ups and downs of risk-taking. Connect with Kerry through her candid, funny, informative, and always encouraging weekly blog. And now it's time for Kerry McCoy to get all up in your business.
[00:00:41] TW: We have kind of a different Up in Your Business show for ya the next couple of weeks. We’ve isolated some of our favorite guests on the program with Kerry and picked out some Arkansans who – for a brief time or a long time – enjoyed the national spotlight, really casting a bright light on the great state of Arkansas.
As an example: Our current Artistic Director of the Arkansas Repertory Theater, “The Rep”, is Will Trice, a nationally-famous Broadway producer, a Tony award-winner! Let’s spend a minute with him.
KM: You had nearly 30 productions on Broadway. They were nominated and won three Tony awards. How do you find out when you're nominated for a Tony award? Do they call you? They send you an email? They text you?
WT: There's a press conference.
KM: You sit there and watch the press conference? You’re just sitting — You don't know before that happens?
WT: No.
KM: And so, what did you do? Like wet your pants when they name your name?
WT: The first time? Well, I mean, they don't name my name. I won those in the context of producing so that it takes a village. So it's really the show that wins the Tony. And —
KM: What was the show?
WT: My first one was for the Gershwin’s Porgy and Bess and then for Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? Which was, well it originated at the Steppenwolf?
KM: Oh yeah, sure, Steppenwolf Theater.
WT: And then All the Way, which was about LBJ with Bryan Cranston.
KM: So you're sitting in the audience — so okay, that’s how you find out you're sitting in the audience, they announce it.
WT: Oh you’re watching it or you are actually just — you can also just wait for the blogs to update.
KM: You met James Earl Jones?
WT: Yes.
KM: Tell me, is he just awesome?
WT: I think he's amazing. He's everything you —
KM: When he walks in a room, is he just big? Is he just so —
WT: He’s very tall and big and everything's very deliberate.
KM: Oh really? Even in real life?
WT: Yeah, but he's an absolutely lovely, man with an absolutely lovely family.
KM: What about Candice Bergen?
WT: Oh, she was amazing. I didn't really interact a ton with her, but I got kind of star struck every time I was in a room with her. But she was very — she's incredibly intelligent and very incredibly classy.
KM: Kerry Washington.
WT: Uh, should be president because she's brilliant and she's got this drive and magnetism and you're like, I don't know, she just — she should be president.
KM: Are all stars like that when you're in the room with them? Do they all have these really big personalities that you can feel in the room? Or do some just turn it on when they’re on stage?
WT: I think there is a, there is a sort of phenomenon to celebrities, right? Like they got to be that way for a reason. And a lot of that’s sort of what you bring to it, right? Like if you didn't know who they were, it's like it's the tree falling in the woods and no one was there. So you know, who knows? Because it's something that you bring to that experience like you’re impressing on them.
KM: How about — you know Al Pacino.
WT: Sure, very shy.
KM: Wow.
WT: Very, very nice.
KM: He seems like he’d just slit your wrist — slit your throat I mean.
WT: He's very kind of meek persona and very, very quiet.
KM: And then the last one I’ve got to ask you about, Angela Lansbury
WT: Like the dame.
KM: The dame.
WT: Class, total class and so smart. Oh, my God.
KM: Well you’ve got to be smart to memorize the lines.
WT: Yeah.
KM: I can't even memorize a 30 second commercial. I have to have him stand over there with the cue card so I can read it. It’s 30 seconds. How could you do two hours of it?
WT: Yeah, every day
[00:04:24] TW: Another guest who’s been on Up in Your Business with Kerry a number of times in Kevin Kresse, local sculptor who was commissioned to create sculptures that would represent the state of Arkansas in Washington, DC. One of them he chose to do? Johnny Cash.
KM: Tell us, when you heard you'd been awarded the commission to represent Arkansas and sculpt the seven-foot-tall Johnny Cash and what you did.
KK: Yeah. Okay. It's actually going to be eight feet. Yeah.
GM: Even better.
KM: Even better.
KK: Then on a three-foot pedestal. It can't exceed 11-feet are the rules up there. He'll be 11-feet altogether.
KM: Oh. And he's got the guitar on the back?
KK: He’s got the guitar on the back.
KK: So how did this come about? Okay, this is interesting. And I just started thinking back then of all the amazing influential musical artists that come, especially from the Arkansas Delta side. I started going, "See? We have Johnny Cash. There's Al Green."
KM: Rosetta Tharpe.
[A few seconds of Didn’t It Rain? by Rosetta Tharpe plays]
KK: Sister Rosetta Tharpe. 10 miles down the road is Louis Jordan. Those two are probably the two people most responsible for rock and roll music.
[A few seconds of Caldonia by Louis Jordan plays]
KK: Big Bill Broonzy. There’s the Silverfox, Charlie Rich.
KM: Charlie Rich is from Arkansas?
KK: Colt. Colt, Arkansas.
There's Conway Twitty.
KM: Oh, Conway Twitty. Yeah.
KK: Of course, then move over. Glen Campbell is over from Delight and everything. I mean, I can keep going. I mean, William Grant Still from Little Rock, first African-American to have a major orchestra performance. Same as a female is Florence Price who's from Little Rock.
KM: Yeah, Florence Price.
KK: Pharaoh Sanders from North Little Rock.
KM: Oh, my gosh. It does just go on and on.
KK: It's incredible. I was like, why are we not promoting these people? And so, at that point, I just started a little ‘build it and hopefully they'll come’ project on my own. I started sculpting bust. And I did Johnny Cash 1960s version. Here's the other weird thing. When we were living in Italy for a year in 2010 to 2011, we met a couple from Portland, Oregon. And so, she emailed me and said, “What are you working on?” I said, “Well, right now, I'm doing a bust of Johnny Cash for this project that I've got going on my own.” She goes, “Oh, I'm friends with his youngest daughter, Tara. She lives here in Portland, and we're in a writer’s group together. Do you want me to connect you two?” And we became pen pals.
So during all this process, then I started hearing the talk about the possible D.C. project. Now Daisy Bates was chosen first. And she was in. Then there was a lot of discussion about who the other person was going to be. I think towards the end, it kind of was coming down between Johnny and Sam Walton.
KM: Oh, interesting.
KK: Yeah.
KM: You heard that was going to be Johnny Cash, so you thought –
KK: Oh, I had my pom poms out going hard.
KM: Go Johnny. Go.
KK: Go Johnny.
KM: Go Johnny go. I'm going to sing again. No. So, how did you apply?
KK: Man, it was like writing your thesis paper and doing your taxes. 10 years of taxes. It was a long application.
KM: How long did it take you?
KK: It took a long time. I think my packet was almost 48 pages long, something. With photos and all that kind of stuff.
KM: So you FedEx it up there, I guess?
KK: Well, I was able to bring mine in and drop it off hand. Drop it off at the Capitol, since I was about two minutes before the deadline. So typical with me.
KM: Such an artist. That's good. They got to see you.
KK: Yeah, for whatever that was worth. I handed that off. Yeah. Then I was told I was in the top three. Then we were given, I'm trying to think now, maybe a few months to come up with the models to present to the committees.
KM: The three of you have to come up with models.
KK: Yes.
KM: Okay. You contacted your senator by now? Are you thinking, "I need some help on the inside?"
KK: You know, that was crossing my mind. But I didn't want to have that. I wanted to win on my own bona fides.
KM: Don't be so naive. Call in everybody.
GM: Artist integrity, mother. Artist integrity.
KK: Well, and not only that. I ended up cutting off conversation with Tara and everybody, because I didn't want any –
KM: Influence.
KK: Yeah. Well, I didn't want anybody coming back, "Oh, that wasn't fair. He's friends with Johnny's daughter," or anything like that.
KM: Oh, I got you. Okay. So now you're down. You got to put three together and you're thinking, "I've got three months. What am I going to sculpt?" Did you already know what you want to sculpt? I mean, you've done one of him in the 1960s. And you're thinking, "Am I going to do the slick pompadour?"
KK: Right. I ended up thinking, probably early 1970s, when he had the TV show was probably his most recognizable timeframe. And so, I had already zeroed in on thinking I needed to do that time. He was healthy. It's a good stretch there.
KM: Is that what you did, the 70s? Is that statue of the 70s? He had long hair.
KK: Yeah. He was probably around 40 at that time.
KM: He had long hair on the statue.
KK: Yeah. It's in between when the pompadour is growing out, and then the hair is getting longer on the back. Yeah, that type of thing.
[00:10:16] TW: Let’s move next to the world of professional sports, specifically the National Football League, on this episode of Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy where we’re featuring guests from the show who are Arkansans who enjoyed the national spotlight, whether for a short period of time or a long period of time. It’s the latter for this guest: Walt Coleman, one of the longest-serving referees in the National Football League. Walt Coleman, the Arkansan from the Coleman Dairy family.
WC: "You know, there's never been an official from Arkansas in the NFL. Why should I apply? I'll never get in." He said – typical sales guy, my dad. All they can say is no. I said, "Uh –"
KM: It doesn't hurt to ask.
WC: Anyway. I applied to the NFL. And it took a couple of years. And Doyle Jackson from Conway got in the year before I did. He was the first Arkansas official to get in. And then I got in the next season in 1989. And then Doyle decided he didn't like it. He didn't like all this travel. Because you're gone and so forth.
He resigned after two after two seasons. He just didn't like it. So then, I became the only Arkansas official. That side. In 1989, there I was in the National Football League.
KM: Talk about the first day you walked on the field. Line judge again, I guess?
WC: Yes. I was the line judge my first year in the NFL.
KM: Only one year?
WC: No. I was line judge for six. I was line judge for six seasons. Then I became the referee.
KM: Talk about walking on the field the first time for an NFL game and where it was.
WC: Now in the NFL, we have pre-season games. Like practice games, which was great. I needed the practice games. My very first practice game that I had was in San Francisco. They sent me to San Francisco. Now they put you in teams and they put you with the veteran guys. So you go on to a team with guys that have worked Super Bowls, that have worked – and you're going to work whatever games they work.
KM: And you stay together in that pod –
WC: And you stay in that group for the whole season. For a whole season.
KM: Okay. All right. You get to know each other.
WC: You get to know each other. You learn who's strong. I mean, all the weakness and so forth. But you work with the same guys. But that means if that team is working a Monday night football game, well, you're going to be thrown out there in your first year as working a Monday night football game.
Anyway, the first game, preseason game, I go to San Francisco. It's the Oakland Raiders playing the San Francisco 49ers. The 49ers won the Super Bowl the year before. Super Bowl champs from the year before. Joe Montana, and Jerry Rice and all those guys was on the team. I walk out on the field in Candlestick Park in San Francisco. Obviously, I've never been there. I didn't know any of these people. I didn't know a soul.
We walk out on the field before the game for warm-ups. And I'm obviously somewhat nervous to say the least. And so, I'm walking up the sideline of the Raiders where the Raiders bench is. And there's this guy standing there watching warm-ups. And he's got on a white shirt, white belt, white pants, white socks and white shoes. Anybody that follows the NFL is going to know who this was. But anyway, I'd recognize him as being Al Davis. Owner and general manager of the Raiders.
And so, anyway, he's standing there. And I know who he is. But I'm just this first year guy from AR and I don't want to have anything to do with him. I'm just going to walk on down the sideline like I'm supposed to. Well, when I get there close to him, he turns and sticks at his hand and he says, "Hi, Walt. How are you doing?" I'm so flabbergasted. I don't even respond. I say nothing.
GM: I was going to say, where you starstruck?
WC: Yes. I mean, the fact that he knew my name. And then, when I didn't say anything, he said, "Oh, Walt, tell me, how's Cynthia? How's Walter and Courtney?"
KM: Oh, he is salesperson, isn't he?
WC: And so, I didn't have a response to that either. I just kept walking. And he probably sitting there thinking, "Well, I knew the guy was blind, but they found one that's deaf too." You know? But the greatest thing about that is what it showed me. I mean, it hit me right in the face. I hadn't even worked a game yet. It showed me what it takes to be successful in the National Football League. It takes preparation. It takes hard work. Look, this is the owner and general manager of the Oakland Raiders and he's taking enough time or he's got somebody to find out what the name of this first-year official is and the name of his family. So, if he has the opportunity to use it, he could.
[00:14:58] TW: Another great Arkansas representative in the National Football League is Keith Jackson. He’s been on Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy a few times.
KM: You got drafted by the Philadelphia Eagles, right?
KJ: Yes.
KM: What number?
KJ: 13.
KM: That’s pretty damn good.
KJ: First round, 13th pick.
KM: That’s pretty darn good.
KJ: Yeah, it was pretty good. You know what’s really interesting, the money's changed since then.
KM: We’re going to talk about that. What about that money?
KJ: Okay. It was exciting. It was exciting time. I tell you one thing about it, when I got drafted, I heard somebody say, “We rich.” I was like, “Are we French, with the we side of that thing?” I don’t know. It was exciting. It's just something that you always want to do as a kid. Playing at Oklahoma and making plays in the big games against Texas and against Nebraska and against Miami, I knew I was as good as any other kids out there, so I knew I'd get drafted. I didn't know exactly when and where I was going to get drafted. Getting drafted by Philadelphia in the first round, 13th pick, that was the highest ever a tight end had been at that time. It was exciting. It really was exciting.
KM: Were they a good team at that time?
KJ: Philadelphia had a great defense and they were really – one of the upper level teams still needed to take one more step to get to the Super Bowl, or get to the playoffs, but they were getting there very fast. Had some great players.
KM: What was the most glaring difference between playing college ball and playing pro ball?
KJ: Everybody's good in pro football. I mean, just everybody. I mean, there's nobody who doesn't have talent. When you're out there, you’re playing against some of the best in the world at all times. In order to make plays, you've got to be pretty good to make those plays. In college, you'll have a guy who's not as good. He's a position guy. He's out there to try to help his team win, but they're putting him in the right position to do that. In the NFL they expose that. You got to be good at every position, or they will come after you. It was so surprising how fast the linebackers were, how big and fast the defensive linemen were. I mean, every position was just physical, fast, I mean, just athletic.
KM: You were at the Eagles from ’88 to ’91. Why did you leave? Or did you get traded or what?
KJ: No. Off of a free agency. That was a great deal. One of my friends came to me and say, “Every time they talk about free [inaudible 0:20:11.0] for you.”
KM: You fought for free agency?
KJ: Yeah, I did.
KM: Oh, you did.
KJ: I was one of the – a matter of fact, the case was called the Jackson 5, believe it or not.
KM: Really?
KJ: It was me and four other guys and we fought for free. We were four-year guys and there was a debate going on with the NFL and NFL Players Association about five-year guys getting – five-year players getting a free agency. We were caught in the middle. I mean, I just said, “Oh, I'll be willing to use my name to fight for this.” I thought it was unfair that our owner could tell me, “This is all you're going to get. I don't care how well you play and what a good player. I can't test the market to see how much money I can make. That's it and you either play or don't play.” I mean, I just didn't think that was fair. I was a good enough player at the time that I could actually say, “Okay. Well, we're going to see how this work.” I was willing take the chance.
KM: What did happen?
KJ: Well, happened is the judge gave us five days, or something like that to find a team, or a week to find a team and the Miami Dolphins called.
KM: You left, you went to Miami Dolphins, right?
KJ: Yes. Had a great career at the Miami Dolphins. The Miami Dolphins call, I go down there, I get a chance to play with the great Dan Marino. A great story about faith is this, is that I was sitting there and I was watching TV with my agent in Malibu. Miami is playing against Seattle. I'm there in Seattle and Dan Marino gets knocked out, first concussion, and he goes to the sideline. They don't take his helmet. He comes back in the game, he throws a touchdown and he doesn't know he threw the touchdown. I looked at my agent and I said, “I want to play with Dan Marino.” The next day they call.
KM: Oh. I’m so with you. If we could high-five, we’d high-five right now.
KJ: I know. The next day they called. Not only that, I told my agent how much money I thought I was worth a year, the next day they offered that amount, without us talking to him. That's some faith believe in God stuff right there. It worked and it was –
KM: Power of prayer.
KJ: It is. It was exciting.
KM: Was there something that happened that made you decide to go to the Green Bay Packers?
KJ: I love Don Shula. His wife, Mary Ann, is from here at Arkansas and I love them both. Coach Shula said, every player who plays on his team can't go home. He said, “You've got to work out.” At that time, players used to go home and come back during the offseason. I get traded to the Green Bay Packers, because I didn't – I didn't want to –
KM: Oh, I missed that.
KJ: Yeah. I didn’t want to come through the offseason. I said, “Hey, I've got this thing, this vision that God has given me called PARK.”
KM: That happened while you were at the Miami Dolphins.
KJ: Well, I started building it up at Philadelphia. I get to Miami and I'm really in, raising money with Walter Hussman. He’s helping me out at the Arkansas Democratic Gazette. I’m flying home a lot. I'm having meetings. We're actually having these offseason, or these things doing offseason while I'm still playing to raise money. It was one of those things where I go – I either listen to the coach, or I listen to God. I said, “Coach, I can't come to an offseason.” He said, “Well, I'm going to trade you,” and he did. He trades me with Green Bay. Best thing that ever happened. I went to Super Bowl with Green Bay Packers. I actually had an opportunity to getting traded to Green Bay, meeting up with my old good friend Reggie White, who was an anchor in my life. We got a chance to play two more years together.
KM: Did you say they won the Super Bowl the year you were there?
KJ: When I was there. Two years. Yeah, one year I was there, we won the Super Bowl, ’96.
[00:20:19] TW: Arkansan Super Bowl winner, Keith Jackson. On this very fun episode of Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy, we’re taking a look at guests from the show’s past that enjoyed the national spotlight for a period of time. We’ve got lots more to get to right after the break.
[BREAK]
[00:20:37] GM: You're listening to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy, a production of flagandbanner.com. Over 40 years ago with only $400, Kerry founded Arkansas Flag and Banner. During the last four decades, the business has grown and changed along with Kerry's experience and leadership knowledge. In 1995, she embraced the internet and rebranded her company as simply, flagandbanner.com. In 2004, she became an early blogger. Since then, she has founded the non-profit Friends of Dreamland Ballroom. And in 2016, branched out into this very radio show, YouTube channel, and podcast.
In 2020, Kerry McCoy Enterprises acquired ourcornermarket.com, an online company specializing in American-made plaques, signage, and memorials for over 20 years. If you’d like to sponsor this show, or get involved with any of Kerry McCoy’s enterprises, send an email to me, Gray – that’s G-R-A-Y @flagandbanner.com. Telling American-made stories, selling American-made flags, the flagandbanner.com.
[00:21:43] TW: Welcome back to the Up in Your Business episode that’s kinda special today, and we plan to do another one like this next week, so I hope you’re back for that one. These are Arkansans who’ve been guests on the show who enjoyed the national spotlight, for one reason or another, for a short period of time or a long period of time.
We all watch reality TV these days. A lot of people watch food-oriented reality TV, and Chef Donnie Ferneau from Little Rock has been on reality food TV more than once.
KM: 2015, you were on the BBQ Blitz. You were on something else, you said.
DF: On cooking, I judged a barbecue show. Big Bad Barbecue Brawl.
KM: Oh, okay.
DF: I secretly had a love for barbecue. I just have it really – the cat was getting out of the bag about that.
KM: Okay. Good. In 2017 you did The Great Food Truck Race and you were the Southern Frenchie Truck, which I watched. I personally really thought you should’ve won.
DF: We did too. We actually got second place in sales that day that we got cut in Nashville. Yeah, but because of the challenges and everything we got squeezed out and that was a tough one. With my wife doing marketing, she was like, “Are you kidding me? We got second in sales. It’s all about marketing. How can you win last in sales and still win immunity?”
KM: Tell the radio listeners that you were married to Meaghan.
DF: Meaghan Ferneau. Yeah, she was –
KM: She was on there with you.
DF: Yeah, she’s the little blonde.
KM: Squeaky little cute blonde.
DF: Gorgeous.
KM: She has a job in marketing and thought she did a great job.
DF: She’s with PR. Yeah, she was PR and her agency was kind enough to let her leave with me for X amount of weeks. That was a big ask right there too.
KM: Is she responsible for getting you on that show?
DF: No. Actually, I’ve done some TV stuff in the past and I can’t really name some of the shows I’ve worked with, which is because I just can’t. Well, some of them and –
KM: Is it because they haven’t aired yet?
DF: I don’t want to get into it really. We’ve gotten pretty close and there was one show that I got on there and we were the final cut, like I was right there, but I didn’t want to play the character, because even though it is about cooking it’s still casting a character.
KM: Absolutely.
DF: There was just this an area I wouldn’t play, because this is a small town. It’s Little Rock and I didn’t want to be a villain, if you will. This one, I was actually at the gym and I was working out, I got a message from Food Network on my Facebook page. They asked if we wanted The Great Food Truck Race. I’m like, “Man, I don’t want to do the food truck.” Then it’s all right. Then they said we could win $50,000. I’m like, “I guess, I’m doing a food truck. Let’s do this.”
They interviewed me and my wife for quite a while. Then we weren’t sure we were on the show, and then our original partner backed out a week and a half out, two weeks out, and then we put a – then we’re able to make a quick adjustment and we were able to get on the show and we had a great time and I have a life-long memory. It was a great time.
KM: You go down and you auditioned.
DF: We did not.
KM: No, you don’t? Okay.
DF: Most people do. There are casting calls –
KM: Most of the time.
DF: Most of the time there are casting calls. This one is – it was unique.
KM: They knew who they wanted and they went out and sell –
DF: Well, you got to understand it’s not – when you’re watching a show, it looks great. But you still have to be gone for five to six weeks.
KM: That was my next question. How long are you gone?
DF: We were gone about five weeks, and you have to – about four weeks, I think it was. You can’t tell anybody what you’re up to. This last one, I did the No Kid Hungry bicycle ride for 300 miles through California. We did a 100 miles a day for three days and then we were going to do the show and we were supposed to leave in March and then it was postponed. I was thinking, “Well, we’re not going to do the show now.”
Literally the week – the day I was supposed to leave for California to go to the bike ride, we had to leave for New Orleans to go film this show. Then I had to call the people in California and be like, “Listen, I can’t ride my bike this far. I know we raised the money, but I can’t tell you where I’m going either.”
KM: They are just mad at you probably.
DF: Well, no. They were cool. They were cool. I’m planning on riding again here in the near future, but I’m still with that charity. They weren’t too upset. We still raised some money.
KM: You’re a volunteer. They can’t get too mad at you.
DF: Yeah. The show was a great experience. It was a great experience for all of us onboard. We all learned a lot about each other and hopefully –
KM: You’re still married.
DF: Actually, we were only married for six months before we were carrying in that food truck in high-stress situation and we came out stronger.
KM: That’s nice.
DF: Could’ve gone one or two ways.
KM: Yeah. That’s really nice. What was it like when you got voted off?
DF: It was hard. I mean, all three of us were really disappointed, because every single one of us put our heart and soul into it. I even think all three of us came together a little bit more personally and we were really able to figure each other out. When it happened we were all like, “Man, this is rigged. This is blah, blah, blah.” Then when we thought about it it’s like, “You know what guys? We just got to see the whole sales on somebody else’s dime and we got to do a great experience.”
It was a lot of fun, but one of my biggest concerns was as a chef building the whole way up, I never wanted to be categorized as a reality chef, you know what I mean? I didn’t want to be – I never categorize as like a food truck TV chef. I wanted to be known for the others, but I like all of it being combined in one. It’s a lot of experiences.
What I really take away from that experience that we had, I got to eat some of the hottest food in the south.
KM: I saw that.
DF: Yeah, and travel around and we really – with openings in restaurant. We had to do marketing and research on Food Network’s guide.
KM: Did you get any – did they pay you at all, because you’re off of work, did you get any –
DF: Yeah, we got money.
KM: You got money while you were there, so you were like a paid –
DF: Yeah. We had our food and everything taken care of, and we got paid a little bit.
KM: A little compensation.
[00:27:41] TW: It’s fun to learn the background of these reality shows that we all watch on television, isn’t it? Arkansans who enjoyed the national spotlight for a little time or a long time, that’s what we’re featuring on this special edition of Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. That was Chef Donnie Ferneau, who’s been on reality food television quite a few times.
Let’s stay with television right now and talk to an Arkansan who was a seven-time Jeopardy winner. He’s Little Rock’s own Josh Hill, and remember: In his memories of his appearance on Jeopardy – as a seven-time winner, which is kind of amazing – it was during the years that Alex Trebek was the host of the show. Ken Jennings hosts the current edition of Jeopardy, so when you hear Josh refer to the famous Alex Trebek, remember his appearance on the game show was during those years. Let’s hear what it was like to be in the national spotlight!
KM: How do you get on Jeopardy?
JH: At one time when I was a teenager, the application process was you sent in a postcard and they would draw random postcards, at least for the teen tournament, which I was a teen back then. They would draw postcards out and invite you to an in-person audition. I was lucky enough to be selected for one, when I was 15, or 16. It was a long time ago.
JH: You’d have the 50-question test and if you pass it, then you play a mock game three at a time just like on the show. They interview you, ask you what you what you would do with the money, a little bit about yourself. During the mock game in that teen tournament audition, I wanted to answer a question and they called it on a different competitor. I did this number. I did that. They're taping everything. They stopped the proceedings and called that out, “You cannot do that. You cannot show disapproval if you don't get called in. You won't get in every time.” I was like, “Well.” I said that with a goofy grin on my face. I was like, “Well, there goes my shot.”
KM: Was it, did there go your shot?
JH: Oh, yeah.
KM: That’s an immaturity thing. There's a lot of really talented smart people out there, but they don't maybe get to the success they want because of this immaturity level that we all have.
JH: 20 years until I got another shot like that.
KM: No. How’d you get in this time? What happened this time that let you got in?
JH: I guess, I passed the 50-question online test when they started doing that a few years ago, instead of just selecting post cards. They have an online test and the people that pass that test then get selected at random for an in-person audition. Mine was in Houston this time. I went there and I had to pass another 50-question test once I got to Houston and they want to make sure you were legitimate, I guess.
Then after that, was the same mock game and contestant interview. I knew I wasn't going to do that time. I was like, “I’m not going to roll my eyes. I'm not going to get in every time.” It turns out at the Houston audition, Alex Trebek was there. He usually doesn't come to auditions, but he came to that one. He surprised all of us and I guess I did okay. That was on a Friday. Came back on Monday. Then Tuesday, when we got back I was getting lunch a tropical smoothie right there on Broadway. I pull my phone out to check Twitter.
I noticed I had a missed phone call from a 310 area code number. They told us at the audition, if you get selected we'll call you and it'll be a 310 phone number. It's not a telemarketer. I saw the phone number; I was like screech. I stopped what I was doing. Called them back. Ryan, one of the contestant coordinators answered the phone. I said, “Oh, I'm sorry I missed your call. I missed your call.”
“Oh, and by the way, we want to invite you out for a taping of Jeopardy.” I’m in the middle of a tropical smoothie and I have to do everything I can not just go jumping around, flailing and screaming like, “Aah, the sky is falling.”
I was telling people well, it's just a taping. They may not select me. I’m trying to tamper down expectations. They told us to bring three changes of clothes. When we got to that morning, there was a bus downstairs and all contestants were there. I get on, there's something 12 of us on the bus. We get to the studio and then after that, there was a couple of rehearsals. Before that, one of the contestant coordinators, Maggie, she went over all the rules, where everything's going to happen, rehearsal, enunciate, make sure you enunciate, answer in the form of a question. Try to start at the top of the board. They mentioned that multiple times.
KM: Oh, really?
JH: Yeah. You don't want to start at the –
KM: $,1000.
JH: $2,000, $1,000 on a clue. You have no idea what the category is about. That was one, in one of my games, the camera was lakes and rivers. I'm sitting like, “Geography. Yeah.” Turns out, the first question was this comedian was one of the co-hosts of the Dank Show –
KM: What does that had to do – Oh, lake Who is that?
JH: Joe Rivers.
Chris Cannon: Joe Rivers.
KM: Oh. I was trying to think of a lake.
JH: I started at the bottom of the category, it would have been someone I've never heard of. Let’s start geography. They tell you to start at the top, so I tried to start at the top. Basically what happens is they do five episodes a day. Monday through Friday, that's one tape day, and they tape two days a week. That was a Wednesday taping, so the Wednesday episode I ended up winning. We went to lunch. Thursday, ended up winning that episode and Friday. I flew back home. I have to fly back out two weeks later.
JH: Here's why, because Jeopardy is in one lot on Sony Pictures Entertainment Studio’s lot. Wheel of Fortune is across the street, and so the same camera crew, the same cameras, they used to film jeopardy on Tuesday, Wednesday, they use those to film Wheel of Fortune on Thursday, Friday.
CC: Did not know that.
KM: I did not either. In one day, how many shows do you do?
JH: Five. It doesn't count the ones for relaxation. Now there are two of those, so two rehearsals. There's a rehearsal in the morning and then three live episodes –
KM: Five take. Five take.
JH: - three taped episodes. Yes, ma'am. Then lunch and then another rehearsal and then two more after lunch. Two more tapings.
KM: That’s seven?
JH: That would be seven, if you count for rehearsals.
KM: You’re exhausted when you go home?
JH: I was pretty tired at the end of the second tape day when it was five episodes in a row, because you don't really get a break. The returning champ, they take them backstage, you change clothes, because it looks like another day. You have maybe 10 minutes to get your makeup redone, re-mic, back out onstage.
KM: You don't have time to think about it.
JH: Not really.
KM: The categories that are chosen, I always wonder if they – you've taken all these tests, they know what your strengths are. Do you think they're rigged to try and make people get out?
JH: Absolutely not. In fact, there are six episodes that are written out by the question writers. They pick five at random. Those are sorted at random before the tape day is even over, even started. Then they select the contestants at random, so it’s random contestants, random take days. In fact, there's always at least one contestant on each day that doesn't get selected. There has to be a sense of randomness about it. They always bring in at least one alternate on the first day.
KM: Do they pay your airfare to go out there?
JH: They don't.
KM: Everything’s on you.
JH: If you're a first-time contestant, you pay for airfare, you pay for hotel. Of course, you're already paid to get to the audition. If you have to fly back out, like if you were returning champ like I was, then they'll pay for your airfare to get back out to LA.
KM: You know how you talked about a few minutes ago how you made that sound of disapproval. I've seen guys do that about the buzzer, like hit the buzzer with their finger and then somebody else gets it, then they look at the buzzer, like something wrong with their buzzer.
JH: At the end of every commercial break, the first thing that Maggie and Lori do, the contestant coordinators, they come and ensure that we all, and Glenn, they make sure that each one of our buzzers works. Have us all ring in one by one, just to let you know, “Hey, your buzzer does work. Maybe you just weren’t quite fast enough, or maybe you were too fast, you were too early.” Because what happens after Alex reads the clue, one of the judges has their own lockout device where they enable the buzzers. If you ring in before the judge enables the buzzers, you’re locked out for a quarter of a second.
CC: I've seen that happen. I've seen people doing this, but they're not getting anything.
JH: They’re not getting in, because they went too early. About half of the questions was my experience. About half the questions, all three contestants know the answer. It’s just a matter of who gets in first.
KM: Really? All right, let’s talk about the big money. You got a $163,000.
JH: After taxes, maybe a hundred bucks.
KM: That’s not true.
[00:36:18] TW: That’s Josh Hill from Little Rock. Seven-time winner on Jeopardy. One of the Arkansans who's been a guest on Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy who enjoyed the national spotlight, not just the local fame, but the national spotlight for a little time or a long time. It's a fun show to be listening to, and we plan to do another one next week, so please stay tuned. Let's go back to sports. How about a former guest on the show named Hoops Green, a woman who made the roster of the Harlem Globetrotters and traveled the world.
KM: So when you go to try out for the Harlem Globetrotters, where do you do it, Atlanta?
HG: Yeah. I had my trial. It was based in Atlanta.
KM: So you go to Atlanta. I guess you’re nervous.
HG: Yes, pretty nervous. I was excited. So it was a lot of adrenaline.
KM: How do you get prepared for your tryout?
HG: I was just mainly concerned about my knees. I’ve been playing basketball, so it was nothing new to me. It’s nothing different. So I was just trying to get my knee prepared mentally and physically. Get it stronger and just get comfortable running and jumping on it.
KM: But going to try out for the Globetrotters is probably like getting ready for all the other games. What do you do before game to get yourself mentally ready?
HG: Like in college I would call my older brother and I would talk to him before every game, but with the Globetrotters, we play every single day, and it’s different now. It’s entertainment as well.
KM: I went on the Globetrotter’s website. I didn’t know there were so many Globetrotters.
HG: Well, there’s about three teams. So the three teams is about 10, 11 players. We have a red, white and blue unit. So we cover more bases. Then sometimes we have a team that breaks off, which creates another unit. But we’ll go back to the 7-3 units.
KM: So do you always travel with the same group of people? Is it like a family of people that travel together?
HG: Yeah, definitely. We’re around each other all the time, like almost 24/7. I can say that those guys are brothers and we treat each other like a family. It’s a lot of fun.
KM: You’re the only girl on the team I guess.
HG: Well, we have only one girl per unit. So you’ll never see more than one girl at a time.
KM: So every one of those teams has one girl?
HG: Yes ma’am. There’s more girls now. I’m the 15th, but there’re other girls that came behind me.
KM: So they started really stepping up their game hiring women I guess on the last few years. So you go down there and you tryout and how long do you have to wait till you find – And you did good I suppose. You did a good job on your exhibition. So you go home. Everybody tells you you’re great. You go home. How long do you have to wait?
HG: Well, after I was don with the tryout, one of the recruiters came up to me and meet me and he was like, “You definitely have a spot on this team.” So I kind of knew, but it wasn’t until – I mean, he basically told me then, but then I signed the contract later.
KM: So you didn’t have to sit around and worry about waiting a longtime. That’s nice.
HG: Yeah. I was pretty confident that I was going to get it.
[00:39:27] TW: That's Hoops Green, who stopped by the Up in Your Business studios once when she was on the traveling Harlem Globetrotters team that was playing at the Simmons Bank Arena. The Harlem Globetrotters will certainly put you under the national spotlight. Next up, also in the sports world, Ray Rodgers. If you're a boxing fan, you know Ray Rodgers was the trainer for Jermain Taylor, one of the true hopes for boxing dominance from Little Rock, Arkansas. Ray grew up around Conway, was a high school football star, a UCA football player, and he's internationally known as one of the best cutmen in the business.
KM: What is it like to be in the ring?
RR: You better now what you’re doing. Somebody will hand you your head.
KM: What do you say to those boys that are getting ready to go in?
RR: Don’t worry about a thing, that I’ll be here for you. I always tell them to get back to that corner as quickly as they can. I try to put them on their seat and let them think for a second or two and get composed. Don’t just start jabbing at him, say do this, do this, do – I give them a drink of water. I let them get themselves back together and then I give them – I don’t say, “Well, do this, do this, and do this.” I pick something specific that they need to do, either blocking with their right hand, jabbing with their left, but don’t tell them a storybook full of things they need to do. They got their hands full because the guy across from them is going to hit him. So they need to know what exactly to do.
If you see that they’re not blocking the jab, you show them again, “Start bringing your hands up, son. Block that jab,” or whatever. Give them some specific thing, but don’t say, “Well, do this, and do that, and do that.” He’ll leave that corner and don’t have a clue what you said to him.
KM: Too many things to focus on. I’m speaking today with the legendary cutman, laceration specialist, community leader, veteran and coach, Mr. Ray Rodgers, known as Mr. Boxing. Ray Rodgers of Ray Rodgers Boxing Club in Little Rock, Arkansas. So do you know Jermain well? Did you work with him a lot?
RR: I know him very, very well. I’ve first met him, his coach, Ozell Nelson, did a good job with him and he brought him by my gym when he was 14-years-old, and I let him spar with a couple of my kids. Jermain and I have been friends for many, many years, and I think the world of him.
KM: How many times you’ve been in the ring with him?
RR: Every time. I’m the only person. All 39 bouts I’ve been in his corner. I’m the only person that has been in his corner every one of his bouts professionally.
KM: He got that bad cut. Who was he fighting?
RR: Bernard Hopkins.
KM: Oh, that’s why he brought his wife. He got a bad laceration in his head, in his scalp.
RR: I believe it was over his left eye. I’m almost sure of that.
KM: I believe it was too, and the announcers were going, “Oh! That’s it. That’s it. That’s a bad cut. You won’t be able to get that – That’d maybe do him in.
RR: Roy Jones Jr. said when I played it again, when I got home, he said, “Well, I can tell you one thing, that cut will be a big factor in the outcome of this fight.” He never mentioned it again.
KM: Did Jermain win or lose that fight?
RR: We won it. We won four world championships that night. Bernard Hopkins owned all of the world middleweight belts, and when we beat him that night, we won every one of them.
KM: Oh, I see. So you don’t fight four different times? You fought one time and won four belts.
RR: For all the belts, right.
KM: So what it’s like to be in the ring with him? Is it adrenaline rush? Is it worrisome? Are you nervous?
RR: No. No, you can’t be like that guy – You said nervous. Nope. Remember him?
KM: No.
RR: Don Knotts. Don Knotts. Just jumpy, jumpy as a Mexican shortstop. I don’t get excited. I ask the people in my corner with me, “You take care of the drinks and stuff like that. I’ll take care of everything else.”
KM: What’s the difference between working in a professional ring with a professional boxer and working with the kids?
RR: Oh! Well, the kids are a lot – There’s a lot of money on the line when it’s professionals, and the kids it’s just a trophy on the line and you just – It’s just a different atmosphere. Professional boxing, like any other profession, is all about money. It’s all about money.
KM: So you said that you won’t teach a kid. If a kid comes –
RR: If a kid comes in and says, “I want to turn pro,” I send them down the road. I’ve never ever – I’ve coached thousands probably of kids and I’ve never ever – I’ve had a number, maybe half a dozen turn pro, but the minute they tell me want to turn pro, I send them out.
KM: Why?
RR: Because I don’t turn kids pro. I don’t train them to be a professional boxer.
KM: Why?
RR: Because it’s a brutal sport. There’s a lack of scruples in professional boxing. I just tell it like it is.
KM: You don’t want to be a part of that?
RR: Nope. No, I won’t be a part of it.
KM: But yet you don’t think it’s a brutal sport when it’s youth golden and silver gloves.
RR: Nope.
KM: You think it’s a discipline.
RR: Because the youngsters are all given a physical prior to the bout, and immediately the minute they walk down the steps at the conclusion of a bout, the doctor reexamines them. We take no chances at all. They’re precious commodities. Those youngsters are just precious.
KM: Whereas the professionals are just a piece of meat.
RR: It’s a piece of meat and it’s all for money.
KM: And they just use them up.
RR: Yup, they use them up and discard them mostly.
[00:45:58] TW: Ray Rodgers, who was in the national spotlight in the sports world when he was the trainer and the cornerman for Jermain Taylor. Our last local personality who enjoyed the national spotlight for either a brief or extended period of time is Wade Rathke. If you want to find someone who embodied the spirit of 60s activism, Wade Rathke is your man. In 1970 he founded the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, better known as ACORN, the largest organization of lower income and working families in the entire United States. And it was based right here in Little Rock, Arkansas. Let's revisit some of Kerry’s conversation with Wade Rathke.
WR: I was in school at a time where the world was changing in the middle-late-60s and you’re either part of the problem or part of the solution, and by God I thought the world was changing. If I didn’t get out and do my part, what was going to happen? It turned out it was a marathon, not a sprint. Once I had dropped out of school the second time to organize, it turned out this is something I could do. I found my calling and I didn’t need to go back to school.
KM: Then you came somehow to Little Rock and founded ACORN in 1970. What could have led you to Little Rock?
WR: June 18th, 1970. I had been working in Massachusetts, organizing welfare recipients who were trying to achieve their rights and against the stigma of being on welfare in the late 1960s. The National Welfare Rights Organization was headed by a guy named George Alvin Wiley. He was a Ph.D. in physics. He’d been a professor at the University of Syracuse.
He left to be part of the Civil Rights Movement. He’s deputy director of CORE, the Congress of Racial Equality and he’s founded around 1966 National Welfare Rights Organization. The long story is they’re trying to win adequate income and he had raised some money in New York for what he called a Southern Strategy, because the two congressional people that were key to increasing welfare benefits were Russell Long, who is a senator in Louisiana at that time, and Wilbur Mills in the second congressional district of Arkansas.
KM: Little Rock, Arkansas. Yeah.
WR: Right. He knew I’d spent time in the south. He was speaking — I was running Massachusetts Welfare Rights at the time and he was speaking at Harvard and I saw him about 20 feet behind. It was a very bitterly cold night and he was talking to a woman who’s my ex-wife and I asked her later, “What was George — Would you like to go back south?” Because she was a New Orleans girl. “You don’t want to live in Massachusetts, do you?”
Once I found out what he was talking about, he was trapped. He raised his money for a southern strategy and he didn’t have anybody who is willing to go to the south. I wanted to try this thing that it was in my mind called ACORN given the experience I had. I wanted to broaden it from welfare recipients to a larger organization of low and moderate income families.
I talked to people in Georgia. They weren’t as interested. I looked at California, it didn’t make sense. I talked to people in Arkansas and they were enthusiastic about this idea of ACORN. I told George, “Yeah, I’ll go do this thing.”
June 18th, 1970, I showed up to satisfy their commitment to do something in the south and with George’s blessing and the leadership’s blessing at the time to try this multi-issue, multi-constituency organization ACORN.
KM: I don’t think anybody realizes that ACORN was born in Little Rock, Arkansas.
WR: Well, it’s not something we’re holding secret, but they may not put her down the Chamber of Commerce news.
KM: They should. There should be actually a bust of you with a plaque talking about Arkansas and ACORN and what a great thing it is. It is the largest organization or lower income and working families in the United States. Is it still?
WR: It isn’t still in the United States, because of the sort of Breitbart news and other attacks in 2009, 2010 after I left.
KM: Was Association for Community Organization for Reform Now ACORN’s original name?
WR: Flying out of Little Rock, the first time I ever came to visit, and I’ve never been here even though I’d lived in New Orleans. I started scribbling on a back of an envelope what possible names could be. I was looking for something that was a good acronym and something that people could draw, and came up with ACORN. Originally, it was Arkansas Community Organizations Reform Now, and then in 1975, when we expanded out, we just slipped that association on and away you go.
KM: I’ve heard that. The A originally was for Arkansas.
WR: Absolutely.
KM: I’ve lived in Little Rock all my life and only recently learned ACORN was founded in Arkansas. I want to make sure everybody realizes that, and that the A in ACORN used to be for Arkansas.
WR: For many years.
KM: Were your parents service oriented, or where does your social justice ambition stem from?
WR: My mother was from Drew, Mississippi. My father was from Orange County, California. They met during the war and the way that so many people — They weren’t that socially conscious, but the times that I was raised in, particularly it was in the era, the Civil Rights Movement, concerned about Vietnam and things like that. You had to make decisions in your life in the middle of 1960s that you weren’t necessarily prepared to make.
KM: How old were you when you became an activist?
WR: I first dropped out of school to organize against the war when I was 19 and went back to school for one semester and then dropped out to organize with Welfare Rights when I was 20, and then I was 21 when I started ACORN.
KM: That’s very young.
WR: When you’re that age, you think you know everything. It’s only as you get older and you realize, “Oh! My God! I didn’t know a damn thing,” and here I was. Yeah, we really thought we knew something at 21 back in the 1960s.
KM: I think you’re idealistic. Why do you think ACORN was so successful?
WR: I think we had a very disciplined organizing model that was easy to replicate in a lot of places in the country. Building an organization is always a fragile and tenuous kind of enterprise, but in the ACORN situation where you had an aggressive, direct-action mass organization, it was never going to rank high on everybody’s popularity poll. God love you for the nice things you’ve said already, Kerry, but we weren’t going to win a contest. We would have been right there in the Trump popularity polls, 30% and 40% perhaps, except in our constituency where ACORN is still a golden name.
[00:53:04] TW: This has been a special edition of Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy and it's only part one. Next week we'll continue with a whole roster of guests from this program who at one time, for a brief moment or a long-lasting period of time, they enjoyed the national spotlight from Little Rock, Arkansas. See you next week.
[OUTRO]
GM: You've been listening to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. For links to resources you heard discussed on today’s show, go to flagandbanner.com, select Radio Show, and choose today’s guest. If you'd like to sponsor this show, or any show, contact me, Gray at gray@flagandbanner.com. Stay informed of exciting upcoming guests by subscribing to our YouTube channel or podcast wherever you like to listen. Kerry's goal is simple — to help you live the American dream.
[END]
