Who doesn’t know the name Dale Carnegie, founder of the Dale Carnegie Courses? Born 1888 on a farm in Missouri, this farmboy-turned-salesman-turned-actor, teacher, author, and self-help guru has helped thousands of people through his teachings, and 100 years later, they are still relevant, and we are still remembering him.
Part of the Dale Carnegie legacy are Mr. Jerry Wilson and Ms. Jessie Wilson (no relation).
Jerry Wilson is the franchise owner for Dale Carnegie Training in Arkansas and other territories of the midwest. A certified trainer, Jerry has spent the past 30 years working with thousands of companies to develop effective management solutions, captivating audiences with his dynamic and enthusiastic speaking style.
Jessie Wilson is the VP of Client Engagement and a Senior Trainer at Dale Carnegie. She has over 12 years of experience in sales leadership and as a certified coach who provides world-class training to organizations across the midwest. Jesse is acknowledged by Dale Carnegie and Associates as being one of the top consultants in North America.
Listen to Learn:
Listen to the interview!
Watch the interview!
[0:00:08] GM: Welcome to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy, a production of flagandbanner.com. Through storytelling and conversational interviews, this weekly radio show and podcast offers listeners an insider's view into the commonalities of successful people and the ups and downs of risk-taking. Connect with Kerry through her candid, funny, informative, and always encouraging weekly blog. Now, it's time for Kerry McCoy to get all up in your business.
[0:00:33] KM: Who doesn't know the name Dale Carnegie, Founder of the Dale Carnegie Courses? Born in 1888 on a farm in Missouri, this farm boy turned salesman, turned actor, teacher, author, and self-help guru has helped thousands of people through his teachings. A hundred years later, probably even over a hundred years later, they are still relevant and we are still remembering him. It is from Mr. Dale Carnegie's courses that so many self-help and personal development teachings and books have arisen.
My guests today are part of the Dale Carnegie legacy, Mr. Jerry Wilson and Ms. Jessie Wilson, no relation. For decades, Jerry led the Little Rock Arkansas Dale Carnegie Courses with probably the most famous one being, How to Win Friends and Influence People, which we'll talk about today, along with Carnegie's other books, How to Stop Worrying and Start Living. Don't we all need to know that?
That's not all. There are self-help classes on all kinds of personal development, from speech-making to tips on improving your memory. Joining Jerry today is Jessie Wilson. As I said, no relation, but she is Jerry Wilson's legacy at Dale Carnegie. It is with great pleasure that I welcome to the table the positive people and coaches of the Dale Carnegie Course. Mr. Jerry Wilson and Ms. Jessie Wilson, no relation.
[0:01:58] JESSIE: Thank you so much.
[0:01:59] JERRY: Thank you.
[0:02:00] KM: You're welcome. Jerry and I were just talking about how long we've known each other. When I took this course, because I did take this course and getting ready for this show, I got all my books and I started looking at them, and son Gray, they referred that this edition that I have is in the 1980s. I'm sure they've made a lot of editions since then, because some of it does feel outdated. Because here's why. Dale Carnegie tells stories. He is like the original documentarian of writing about people. They're tiny little bites of stories. It’s like, they're two paragraphs, which is the way I like to read. I would say, these books are written on an eighth-grade level. What would y'all think?
[0:02:43] JESSIE: No, and it was strategically from the eighth-grade level, because I think Dale Carnegie, that was something that really stood out to him is that meeting people where they are, and they can read that. Something’s that’s an interesting fact is actually, Donna Dale Carnegie, Dale Carnegie's daughter is, she's our Chairwoman for Dale Carnegie. She just did a revision of How to Win Friends and Influence People that was released earlier this year. There's new stories. The integrity of the whole book, How to Win Friends is the same, but there's some of the different types of stories that are more relevant for today.
[0:03:26] KM: It talks a little bit about science. I mean, science has come a long way since the 80s.
[0:03:31] JERRY: Yes, it has.
[0:03:33] JESSIE: Yes.
[0:03:34] KM: It talks about brain theory and stuff. I'm like, “No, that's not true anymore.”
[0:03:39] JESSIE: Yup, exactly. Yes.
[0:03:43] KM: Let's talk about Dale Carnegie. He was born Carnagey, that he spelled C-A-R-N-A-G-E-Y, and he changed it to be like the Andrew Carnegie, the steel magnet. I mean, that's clever.
[0:03:57] JESSIE: Oh, yeah.
[0:03:58] JERRY: Well, he was an entrepreneur, and he saw the Carnegie name, because previously it was Carnagey, as you just said. He saw the Carnegie name and realized that he could ride that wave that people knew the name and –
[0:04:14] KM: And they'd remember it.
[0:04:14] JESSIE: Yes.
[0:04:16] KM: in 1912, he born in ’88, but in 1912, he moved to New York and was selling cars and being an actor and all this stuff. Like I said, I just got finished reading some of it again. Then he got really saddened by what he was doing. He wasn't feeling fulfilled. He wouldn’t try to get a job at two colleges, because he's trained. He's gone to college. He's trained to be a teacher. He didn't get hired. Like so many people, it was the best thing that ever happened to him. The disappointment was the best thing that ever happened to him. Tell our listeners what he ended up going to the YMCA and tell them what he did.
[0:04:54] JESSIE: Yeah, he started the – it was a public speaking course for men originally during that. Then what he had realized is that people don't need to learn just how to be public speakers. They need to be good people, skilled in speaking. Then that really started that journey for building the book, How to Win Friends and Influence People. He dug into those stories and then from there, created the Dale Carnegie Course we know today. It's been shifted over time, from 16 weeks to 12 weeks, to eight weeks, to three days of –
[0:05:34] KM: Really?
[0:05:35] JESSIE: Yes. It has shifted over time.
[0:05:37] KM: Can you still do a long course if you liked?
[0:05:38] JESSIE: Yes, yes. You can still do a long course if you want to.
[0:05:41] KM: You're meeting people where their needs are.
[0:05:43] JESSIE: Yes.
[0:05:43] KM: You want to three days, or – Oh, just like Dale Carnegie.
[0:05:45] JESSIE: Exactly. What's really powerful, Kerry is, and many people don't know this, is that Dale Carnegie is a global organization. We have 210 offices globally and deliver this training in over 25 languages. What started the global picture was Dorothy Carnegie, Dale Carnegie's wife. When Dale Carnegie passed away in 1955, Dorothy Carnegie said, “Well, this needs to be bigger.” We need to take this global and have more of that franchise concept started because of Dorothy Carnegie.
[0:06:23] KM: What was his first book?
[0:06:25] JESSIE: The How to Win Friends.
[0:06:26] KM: That was his first book.
[0:06:28] JERRY: The background, you might find interesting in How to Win Friends and Influence People. He would have people, he would take a principal, ask his class members to go out and apply it, and then come back and report on it. Those that succeeded more than they failed, he put in the book. The others, he threw away.
[0:06:51] KM: It was like his own laboratory.
[0:06:53] JERRY: It was his own laboratory.
[0:06:55] KM: No wonder they're so perfect. No wonder they're still good. I'm amazed at a 100 years later, we're still got all the same issues we had a 100 years ago, even with all our technology and everything.
[0:07:05] JERRY: Technology's dramatically changed, but people haven't. What keeps you up at night is not a piece of equipment. It's somebody.
[0:07:15] JESSIE: Yeah. He realized that more people had worry and stress in their life than anything else. He mentions, he went to the New York library, because he wanted to find, “Okay, I'm going to invest in myself. What can I find about this?” I mean, there were some, but barely anything. But you can imagine, you go to a worry section, and there was very few. Now we have more. But during that time, he saw 50 books on worms. He said, “Why do we have 50 books on worms and nothing on worry?” Then that's how it started. From there, he saw the need and fulfilled that need.
[0:07:57] KM: Was his next book, How to Stop Worrying and Start Living?
[0:08:00] JESSIE: Yes.
[0:08:00] KM: Then the one after that was The Quick and Easy Way to Effective Speaking. Those are the three that you're given when you join your class. You're given those three books, because I have those books. Is there any more?
[0:08:10] JESSIE: There are. Yes, we released – there's been different ones over the last several years, because, Kerry, to that point, I mean, many people, they think How to Win Friends and Influence People, it's still relevant today.
[0:08:23] KM: So relevant.
[0:08:25] JESSIE: But part of our brand within Dale Carnegie is that, hey, we have got to remain relevant. We've got to continue to share these different stories. We have books on the listening. We have a new book that's been released just this past year called Take Command. The Take Command is written by Joe Hart, who is our CEO, but it's also through different stories across our global network. These are with customers. These are with Dale Carnegie franchisees. You get to hear how they take command of their business. It's very powerful. We've done some different book releases across – really across the world in bringing that Take Command book.
[0:09:10] KM: He wrote a book about Abraham Lincoln.
[0:09:12] JESSIE: Yes. That you get that in the training if you win an award.
[0:09:16] KM: I must have won an award, because I got that book and again, it was very easy to read. I was fascinated that Dale Carnegie was so fascinated by Abraham Lincoln.
[0:09:28] JERRY: Yeah. He was. What was it? Entitled Lincoln the Unknown.
[0:09:32] KM: Very good. Yeah. It was about, how could you start from such humble beginnings and become one of the most important people in the – or the most important person in the world that changes everything. How did you two end up in the business?
[0:09:48] JESSIE: Jerry, I’ll have you start.
[0:09:50] KM: Yeah. Jerry, you start first.
[0:09:52] JESSIE: Yes.
[0:09:53] JERRY: Long before Kerry – Long before Jessie, I took a sales course.
[0:10:02] KM: Really
[0:10:03] JERRY: Was in sales and took a sales course. I have a dramatic impact on my performance. I moved from the bottom of the sales group that I was in to the top. I thought, “Wow, this is really powerful. This makes a lot of sense.” Gained a lot of confidence.
[0:10:27] KM: Were you in Little Rock?
[0:10:28] JERRY: No. Was in Richmond. Richmond, Virginia.
[0:10:30] KM: Is that where you’re from?
[0:10:32] JERRY: Virginia is where I’m from. Small, little town of about 3,000 people in the heart of tobacco country. I didn't fit the corporation I was working for Real Well. I was looking for a job and I had found out that the instructor on that franchise was looking for salespeople. I thought, “Boy, if I could work with this guy for a year, that would be an education I couldn't buy.” One year turned into 36.
[0:11:08] KM: In some ways, when I was reading How to Win Friends and Influence People, I thought it was just teaching manners, and that we've just forgotten to be mannerly. It's like, “Ah, just be nice and listen to people when they talk to you. Come from where they're coming from and try to have empathy.” You're like, “Well, isn't that just Ms. Manners rewritten in a –”
[0:11:32] JERRY: It's related. It's related. We want to deal with people that we like. Not someone that's rude.
[0:11:42] JESSIE: Yeah. I would even say too, Kerry, that when you look at the core of the principles, they're common sense.
[0:11:48] JERRY: Yes, they are.
[0:11:48] KM: They are.
[0:11:49] JESSIE: They are. You look at that and you're like, “Oh, yeah, this isn't just how to be nice?” But they're not common practice.
[0:11:54] KM: Oh. Somebody write that. Common sense, not common practice. Y'all put that on my website. All right. This is a great place to take a break. When we come back, we'll continue our conversation with the self-help gurus, Mr. Jerry Wilson and Miss Jessie Wilson, no relation. They are shining examples of personal growth and confidence that they teach through their work at the Dale Carnegie courses. We'll be right back.
[0:12:20] GM: You're listening to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy, a production of flagandbanner.com. Over 40 years ago, with only $400, Kerry founded Arkansas Flag and Banner. During the last four decades, the business has grown and changed, along with Kerry's experience and leadership knowledge. In 1995, she embraced the Internet and rebranded her company as simply flagandbanner.com. In 2004, she became an early blogger. Since then, she has founded the non-profit, Friends of Dreamland Ballroom, began publishing her magazine, Brave, and in 2016, branched out into this very radio show, YouTube channel and podcast.
In 2020, Kerry McCoy Enterprises acquired ourcornermarket.com, an online company specializing in American made plaques, signage and memorials for over 20 years. In 2021, opened a satellite office in Miami, Florida. Telling American made stories, selling American made flags, the flagandbanner.com.
[0:13:15] KM: Thank you, Gray. You're listening to Up In Your Business with me, Kerry McCoy, and I'm speaking today with Mr. Jerry Wilson and Miss Jesse Wilson. To use modern terminology, they are authentic life coaches before life coaches was even a word. I say authentic, because their methodology comes from the tried and true courses of Dale Carnegie in Little Rock, Arkansas.
All right, if you're just tuning in, we were talking about Dale Carnegie's life and he's a fascinating guy. I like the way his books are written. They’re eighth grade. My favorite reading level. They're not too long. 220 pages, perfect for me. Now, we're going to talk about some of the books. The first book we're going to talk about was the book that was the most famous. I think I read it, it was made into 37 languages and I don't even know how many millions of copies. The edition I have is 1981, which is how Jerry and I found out when I took my course, was in the mid-80s. Let's just dissect for our listeners some of the great tips. Part one, again, Miss Manner's, don’t’ criticize. Give sincere appreciation and arouse in the other person and eager want to.
Well, of course. But I do think that sometimes, people are confused when they think that when you criticize somebody, you're helping them and that that's how you motivate them. All of us mothers know, you can't get your kid to clean the room by yelling at them. You got to tell them, “I'll buy you a toy after you get the room clean.” I mean, or something. I don't know.
[0:14:51] GM: Incentivize.
[0:14:52] KM: Thank you. That's why we have him here. He finishes all my sentences. When I read this, I thought about how, I didn't even realize that all of these principles had seeped into my subconscious and that I've actually been using them for years. I think you could rename this book, A Manager's Guidebook, because this is how you motivate your employees. You don't go in and go, “You idiot. I can't believe you did that the other day.” You come in and say, “I know you didn't mean to do this, but I need to let that you checked the wrong box when you were writing that order up. Thanks for making that. Thanks for getting that order. That's a good order.” Then they'll do it right next time.
[0:15:37] JESSIE: It's so true. I think, especially these first nine that I think about different stories, where many – like in the workforce today, we're in a hybrid environment. Some people are working from home. Some people are in the office. The big challenge today is that part of the reason you see some people leaving is they're not connected, and they don't have the connection at work. Sometimes when you think about it, I call those first nine principles are micro environment. It's in a way that all of us have a vibe. Kerry, you have a vibe. I have a vibe. Jerry has a vibe. It is, are we bringing that positivity to us around that micro environment? Or do we bring another? Are we negative from that?
These first nine help us to get a gauge to see what environment am I creating? When I walk into a room, what do they see those nine? Because that's intentional on truly at the core of it, it says, become generally interested, not be, “I have to become it. I have to change my motivation. I need to shift my thinking to think more about you than about me.” That micro environment really demonstrates that. Today's workforce, those first nine, even though they seem basic, are vital to employee engagement. They're vital to how we interact with one another. They're vital to whether I'm on a meeting for five minutes virtually, how you feel when I leave that meeting.
[0:17:32] KM: You're saying nine, I guess, because my book's old, I only have six.
[0:17:38] GM: Hey, you need the new edition.
[0:17:39] KM: I need the new edition.
[0:17:41] JERRY: The next three.
[0:17:43] KM: Yeah. Here they are for everybody. Become generally interested in other people, which you just said. I mean, you got to really be interested.
[0:17:50] JESSIE: You do.
[0:17:51] KM: When Jerry got here, I thought he was interviewing me. “So, how did you start your business?” I said, “Whoa, Jerry. Stop your Dale Carnegie principles on me.”
[0:17:58] JESSIE: Yes.
[0:17:59] GM: When did you start this radio show, Kerry? We had a whole conversation about why you started this radio company.
[0:18:03] KM: Yes. He was genuinely interested. Then smile. Jessie, you have the best smile of anybody on the planet. I mean, do you ever not smile until your cheeks hurt all day long?
[0:18:15] JESSIE: Yes.
[0:18:16] KM: This one, I remember Bill Clinton saying that a person's name is the favorite sound they want to ever hear is their name. I have a problem with this.
[0:18:26] JESSIE: Okay. Why?
[0:18:26] KM: I can't remember anybody's name. I try so hard.
[0:18:32] JERRY: Kerry, I'll tell you –
[0:18:32] KM: I took your memory course even.
[0:18:33] JERRY: I’ll tell you how to do it.
[0:18:34] KM: Okay. Tell everybody. Tell us.
[0:18:36] JERRY: The next person you meet, loan them a $100.
[0:18:43] GM: Then you’ll remember their name.
[0:18:43] JESSIE: You’ll remember it.
[0:18:45] JERRY: What would that do? I mean, truly. That's been humorous. But what would that do? That would really make us work at learning the name. Bill Clinton was a master at it, and had a quick mind so that he had an advantage over most. If we really met somebody that was going to buy your business today, will you learn their name? You'd remember that. You'd get it the first time, right?
[0:19:19] JESSIE: I would. Well, they say like, because Kerry, I was the same way. I mean, I'm like, “I work at Dale Carnegie. Well, why can I not remember certain people's names?” This was probably 12 years ago. I had an aha moment. It was really a self-reflection for me that it was where I saw value. I think naturally, we compartmentalize people and we say, “I'm only going to meet you for two minutes. I really don't need to remember your name.” It's like a file cabinet. I don't even need to put it in my file cabinet. It doesn't need to go there. I can just throw that away.
Then we meet somebody and maybe they're sitting on the desk and then they say something that could help our business. Like, “Hey, I'm really interested in this.” Then we file it away, because it's a value to us. It's important. It's truly more deeper than that. It's deeper in our own self-motivation. I would say that, and this is what I tell a lot of people is that the Dale Carnegie program, where we teach the remembering names, where we teach about different memory techniques is that even if you took it 30 years ago, I encourage people to take it at every season of their life, because you're going to have a different perspective from it. Because when you took it 30 some years ago, now you're going to look at through the lens of leading a larger cause, leading a team and seeing maybe through the eyes of your grandkids and to see how can I best influence in this stage, rather than how you saw it during that point.
[0:21:01] KM: Yeah. She's speaking to me on my level, like Dale Carnegie said.
[0:21:05] JERRY: Well, she is. She's good. She's a comp performer. You and I face age. That impacts –
[0:21:14] KM: Yeah. Memory loss. Yeah.
[0:21:15] JERRY: That impacts memory. That's different.
[0:21:18] KM: Oh, it is.
[0:21:19] JERRY: Sure. Where Jessie was earlier is what really matters, is do you see beyond the name?
[0:21:25] KM: Motivation.
[0:21:25] JERRY: Who’s the person? Yeah. What’s –
[0:21:26] KM: Motivation.
[0:21:28] JERRY: Yeah. Why is it important?
[0:21:31] KM: All right. The next one is a big good listener. I hear a lot about active listening and I see over and over and over people that interrupt other people and don't listen. This radio show has been so good for me to learn to be an active listener. I didn't realize how bad I was till I started this radio show and I realized I interrupt people all the time. I even had a caller call in one time and say, “Tell that lady to quit interrupting her guest.”
[0:21:56] GM: Yeah. Back when do it live. Yeah.
[0:21:58] KM: When it was live. The next way is how in this same book is to win people to your thinking.
[0:22:09] JERRY: That's different.
[0:22:09] KM: That's different. There's three really good things that this one book teaches in only 200-something pages that I thought every manager should read. The only way to get the – to win an argument is to avoid it. Whereas, a lot of people don't think that. They're like, “I'm going to go tell them so and so and so.” That's really not it. Then show respect for the other person's opinions. Never say you're wrong to anybody, which I have heard people say that.
[0:22:38] JERRY: Well, sure.
[0:22:39] KM: Remember when Bill Riley used to tell his guest to shut up on TV? I could not even watch that show. I was like, “Where is his mother?”
[0:22:50] JESSIE: Yes.
[0:22:50] KM: Then, if you're wrong, admit it quickly and empathetically. I will admit, I'm wrong even if I'm not, just to avoid a fight and to move on and let the other person win, because I don't care if I win half the time. Really and truly. I mean, half the stuff you're trying to win, does it really matter?
[0:23:09] JESSIE: I think one common misconception that we hear a lot is, “Wait. You're telling me to avoid arguments. We need conflict in the workplace to get things done. I can't just do that.” It's a one thing that we demonstrated is the keyword is argument. An argument is 90% emotion and 10% nonsense. Conflict is, we should have conflict. We need diversity of thought. We're not just everybody, I have this. But it says, in order to get the best of it, of this argument, to avoid it. We know, when we walk into the workplace and there's that one employee that just tends to – they just know our buttons. They want to argue with anything. It devalues the meeting. It starts to really, almost deflate your inflated balloon during the day. Just avoid that argument, because you are naturally – if you feed into that, it's going to create a fire.
[0:24:18] KM: I think this is good, too. Let other person feel like it’s his or her idea, because then they'll have ownership.
[0:24:24] JERRY: That’s right.
[0:24:25] KM: If you're trying to get something done, you can ask, instead of saying, “You need to take the trash out every day,” to your husband, you can say, “Is tomorrow trash day?” They're, “Oh, yeah. I need to take the trash out.” You're, “Okay. Good. That was your idea.”
[0:24:42] JESSIE: Yeah. Kerry, what I like to do is when we're on vacation, my husband loves to go to coffee shops and I like to shop, and so I strategically look and see where shopping that I want to go to and a coffee shop is close.
[0:24:54] GM: Perfect.
[0:24:55] JERRY: Yes. I just say, “Hey, did you want to go check out that coffee shop there?” We get there and while he's lining, I'm like, “Hey, how about you stay here? I'm just going to go over here and there.” He has figured out what I have done.
[0:25:09] KM: I was about to say, I hope Pete don’t listen to this show. Then try to be honest about it from the other – and think of it, like you said from another person's point of view and be sympathetic, like you said, to the other person. Then, I didn't know what this one means, but it says, dramatize your ideas. Then the last one says, throw down a challenge. I didn't read that part. I didn't get to that today. What is throw down a challenge mean?
[0:25:35] JERRY: For competitive people. I mean, how many times, Kerry, you got a throw down a challenge for any time we get faced with something, that maybe you throw down a challenge to your sales team and say like, “Hey, we need to go do this, or we need to have someone, the orders here.” I think more times than not, we tend to limit people. Throw down a challenge for them that say that there is a goal that you want to hit, and you write down that number.
I remember, I was specifically in a sales meeting and one of the owners, he wrote down a number. Didn't say anything else from that. From that, he just said, that's where we need to be next year. Threw down a challenge. Yeah. We were just like, “Okay.”
[0:26:25] KM: Was it huge?
[0:26:26] JERRY: It was huge. We knew we could get there. He didn't yell at us. It was more around – I remember, I think there's so many different things. He would come into the office. He says, “I have $50 for the first person to get a meeting.” All of us are on the phones. There are challenges on there, because for that –
[0:26:47] KM: That's fun. That's games.
[0:26:49] JERRY: That's games.
[0:26:49] KM: Now we're playing games.
[0:26:50] JERRY: Makes it fun.
[0:26:52] KM: Then nine ways to do it without giving offense, or causing resentment. Begin with praise. This always works for all you managers out there. If you're going to write somebody up, I learned this not through – maybe I'll learn it through Dale Carnegie, but I think I learned it through management. You bring somebody and you're going to write them up, and you tell them right off the bat what they did great and what they did good and what you like and what you're proud of. Then you tell them, “But this is where we could improve.”
[0:27:20] JERRY: Yeah. When I look at those principles, that if you go down, it could really be a coaching process. Typically, when we think – if we’re thinking through the lens of a manager, the natural thing to do is like, they're up at night thinking about, “Oh, I have to have that difficult conversation.” For them, it's a to-do list. Now, I just want to get it done. I'm going to be direct with you. “Here's what you did wrong and go.” Well, then the performance of their team is going to go down the drain. The beginning with praise, it's in a way, sets the tone. Is this person worth keeping? If they are, then we need to begin with that, because everyone has those strengths.
I'd even say, too, when we begin with that praise and honest appreciation, even sometimes those mistakes that we make, if the motivation was pure, we need to think about that. Maybe they made a huge mistake, but they were trying to be efficient and fast. That's a good thing. Now you love your efficiency and how quick you were on this. Then you go in and you talk about, let's make sure continue that speed, but let's see how we can make that even more effective.
[0:28:40] KM: I don't think most people do things out of malicious, or on purpose. Most of the time, right, most of the time, they don't know they're doing it, or it was a mistake. More than not, it was a mistake and they're actually glad to talk about it a lot of times. They’re like, “I know. I meant to.” That's okay. It's a mistake. Let's just not do it again.
[0:29:01] JERRY: Well, and we all beat ourselves up more than we'd let somebody else beat us up, right?
[0:29:08] KM: Ain’t that the truth?
[0:29:09] JESSIE: Yeah. Because you've called them into your office and they've already not slept that night before. They're already thinking, “Should I go to indeed.com?” Like, all the things that are there. Then when it like, it de-escalates it.
[0:29:25] KM: Then I do think, you need to do, like it says on the 4th, ask questions instead of giving direct orders. I think if you say, “What can we do next time to change this? They know what to do. I ever know what to do. That's not in their position. They can say, “I think the back door needs to have a new latch put on it and then I won't leave it open tomorrow when I leave. I think the lock’s bad.” Then the same thing goes with your children for parenting. I mean, your kid may be running in the street. Look, she's laughing. She's got two young kids.
[0:29:58] JESSIE: Yeah.
[0:29:58] KM: I mean, they may be running in the street and you're like, “Boy, you're a fast runner. Stay out of the street.”
[0:30:03] JESSIE: Yeah. No, it's so funny. It's so funny here, because what I think about – I mean, I'll even tell when I'm in a training, I'll say, “I coach way more at home than I do in this training room.” My son, he's five. He's almost six next month. Part of his kindergarten, he has to give a presentation. They want to work on presentation skills.
[0:30:24] GM: Do they know who his mom is?
[0:30:25] JESSIE: Oh, no. I don't know if his teacher knows what I do, but yes, she'll definitely learn when she says – cause I even – I said, “Graham, stop moving your arms. Graham, be quiet. Go through this.” I mean, we practice it every day and he gets two stickers every time he practices it. I mean, you see the coaching, he's self-correcting and he's only six.
[0:30:51] KM: You're such a good mom.
[0:30:54] JERRY: Yes, she is.
[0:30:56] KM: Speech making is another one of your big topics. When I come back, we'll talk about that one. This is a great place to take a break. When we come back, we're going to continue our conversation with Jessie Wilson and Jerry Wilson from Dale Carnegie Courses. We're going to talk about speech making and we're going to talk about how to stop worrying, because everybody worries too much and it's not good for you. We'll be right back with tips on those subjects.
[0:31:21] ANNOUNCER: The Dreamland Ballroom. Up on the top floor of Taborian Hall, the home of flagandbanner.com. We've told you about this historic place many times on this program and they have hosted an incredible array of musicians and performers in the 105 years that this building has been on West 9th Street in Downtown Little Rock. The current entry on the director's blog at dreamlandballroom.org will really bring it to life for you. A list of the artists and the dates and whom they performed with is in that blog entry. You've got to see it. Go to the director's blog at dreamlandballroom.org and read about Duke Ellington, Cab Calloway, BB King, Etta James, Sammy Davis Jr., Red Fox, Count Basie, who you're listening to in the background, Dizzy Gillespie, and so many more, having performed at this historic location that we have right here in Little Rock, Arkansas. Dreamland Ballroom. They can always use your donations as they continue improving this historic landmark. Dreamlandballroom.org.
[0:32:30] KM: You're listening to Up in Your Business with me, Kerry McCoy, and I'm speaking with Jessie Wilson and Jerry Wilson, no relation, from the Dale Carnegie Courses they teach. All right, now we're going to talk about speech making. Let's talk about the book, A Quick and Easy Way to Effective Speaking. Why is it important?
[0:32:48] JERRY: Our greatest fear in life for most people is speaking in front of a group, right?
[0:32:53] KM: Yes.
[0:32:56] JERRY: What happens is as people develop a skill, then our confidence grows and we're able to be ourself. That encompasses all of life, because that confidence also comes through if you're just talking to one person. It's really about helping people to build their confidence. It's about overcoming a fear, right?
[0:33:21] JESSIE: I think about, there was a graduate from actually, Google. She had delivered a presentation and she was so nervous, her hands, everything, just, “Oh, my gosh. Do I want to do this?” Then she basically was like, “I'm done.” Like, “Oh, there we go.” Then she gets a call from her boss and he says, “I want you to take the Dale Carnegie course.” She goes, “What? Ah. No. This is stressful. I can't do this.” She said she was an administration. She was an admin to an executive. He said, “I believe that this will really help you.” She took it and she spoke at our Dale Carnegie Convention. She spoke in front of all these people, so close to a thousand people across Dale Carnegie –
[0:34:17] KM: That know about speeches.
[0:34:19] JESSIE: That know about speeches.
[0:34:19] KM: That’s a tough audience.
[0:34:21] JESSIE: She just said, it gave her this confidence. Now, we work with the executive, executive assistants across Google to give them that type of skillset, because she said, we only know what we know. From those aspects, when we talk about our audience, I think at the core of it, if I were to think about what is Dale Carnegie, figure out this phrase, it's not about you. Then make it about somebody else. If you're going to give a speech, don't make it about you. “Oh, my gosh. I hope I don't mess up. Oh, my gosh. I hope I don't say this wrong thing, or I don't have enough experience, or I feel like an imposter, all those things.” If you focus on that, it's going to fail.
If you focus in on who you're speaking to, what they care about, what the goal, what the purpose is, you're going to be more successful. Then don't have the first time you actually say it out of your mouth. Be on that day, you give it. Because some things that sound great in our head do not sound great when we actually deliver them.
[0:35:29] KM: Oh, you mean practice?
[0:35:29] JESSIE: Oh, yes. Practice them. Yes. Because there's many times I can say that if I don't practice it before, and I just think about it, I'll think it's the funniest thing ever. Then I give it, I'm like –
[0:35:46] GM: The jet doesn’t land.
[0:35:47] JESSIE: Yeah, yeah. You're like, “Oh, man. That sounded great.”
[0:35:49] KM: Do you practice just with yourself, or do you practice to somebody else?
[0:35:54] JESSIE: Sometimes I do both. It just depends. Like, well, I know it's different facilitators will come together and we’ll say, “Okay. Hey, let's practice this.”
[0:36:02] JERRY: Kerry, I want to go back for a minute for your listeners, but for all of us, most of us beat ourselves up, right? If we're going to give a presentation, we're talking about what – we talk to ourselves, right? The point is to talk to ourselves with positive things. I'm prepared for this presentation. I'm really going to be good. I'm going to have a lot of energy. It's going to feel good for me. To give ourselves positive pep talks, because most people give themselves negative pep talks. Well, that only makes it worse.
[0:36:40] KM: Yeah, it really does. How do you stop worrying and start living? That's another book.
[0:36:47] JERRY: Yeah. Part of it is the positive pep talks. A lot of the things we worry about never happen. Mr. Carnegie said, 90% of them never happen, so we spend all of our time and effort wasted on something that's not going to happen.
[0:37:05] KM: I thought this one was interesting that I read. He said, what's the worst thing that can happen? He says that in his book.
[0:37:12] JERRY: That’s right.
[0:37:13] KM: I read it again today. What's the worst thing that can happen? I think, well, I'll lose that $100,000. Will I lose my other business? No. But I will lose my savings. He gave lots of examples of going ahead and asking yourself, what's the worst thing?
[0:37:32] JERRY: Accept that. Then improve on it.
[0:37:36] KM: If I leave my husband tomorrow? No, I’m just kidding. I'll be broke.
[0:37:40] JESSIE: Yes. Well, and I think, too, when you look at the book, it's broken up into different sections, similar to How to Win Friends and Influence People. One section is how to conquer worry. One section is around our good working habits. Some are around, okay, when – how do I break the fatigue? When I'm exhausted and I'm just so fatigued with everything going on. Each of those, the different sections have different principles that can help us.
[0:38:14] KM: How do you break the fatigue?
[0:38:16] JESSIE: They say that it's what we think about we become. I always say, if it's trash in, it's trash out. Because if what I think in here – it's a spiral effect. If I think one negative thought, there are 15,000 other thoughts that are negative.
[0:38:35] KM: The story we tell ourselves is probably the most important story. We can tell ourselves, “I'm going to be great at this.” You'll probably be great at it.
[0:38:44] JESSIE: Yeah. I would say, too, Kerry, that when we think about from fatigue perspective, one of the – our previous franchise owners, he passed away in November. He had nine and a half years with terminal cancer. I really got –
[0:39:01] GM: That’s a long time with terminal cancer.
[0:39:03] JERRY: Yes, it is.
[0:39:04] JESSIE: It is. You think about how to stop worrying and start living. He lived those principles.
[0:39:09] JERRY: Yes, he did.
[0:39:10] JESSIE: I got to see those principles in action during a very traumatic time. One thing that he did is that he created happiness for others. When we tend to have trauma in our life, we live in a time and we get fed that, “Oh, I'm so sorry. It's okay. Just sit there. You don't need to do anything.” Be in your own thoughts. He did not do that.
[0:39:39] JERRY: He was amazing.
[0:39:41] JESSIE: Amazing. He would think about others before most people would think about the other person.
[0:39:46] JERRY: Kerry, you remember this. On surface, people act enthusiastic and you'll be enthusiastic, right? We did that in the class. It's not about fun and games. But it's saying, “I can change how I think.” It's about changing how we think.
[0:40:09] KM: One of the guys that he quotes is Sir William Osler who said, “Live in day-tight compartments.” I thought that was really good. Live in day-tight compartments. One time, I did go to a counselor and she said almost that to me. Probably everybody's heard this. If you want to have worries, think about the future. If you want to have regret, think about the past. If you want to be happy, think about today. Out of that year of counseling that I went in there and talked to her, that's the one thing I think that really, really stuck. When I saw this in the book, live in day-tight compartments, it keeps you from stewing about things, or being angry about things.
[0:41:02] JESSIE: There's something in the book. It talks about water the plant at your feet.
[0:41:08] KM: Oh, I like that.
[0:41:09] JESSIE: It's like, water what's in the present. Don't look into the field ahead and don't look behind you. But it's in a way, our day is filled in compartments. I think, if we were thinking today's time, it's probably live in 30-minute compartments, rather than a day. But in that 30 minutes, say I had a bad meeting. I just got chewed out by my boss. Well, tends to, we have then decided the rest of our day is going to be terrible, until we decide, “I'm going to deal with that compartment and then I'm going to start a new day.” Then it shifts. It's in a way, we have our mindset that says, “I'm having a bad hair day. It's not going to be a good day.” We tell people it's not going to be a good day. Well, then when we live in daytime compartments, we have to deal with all those stresses and then start it over.
[0:41:59] JERRY: You can't control how you feel. You can control how you act. If you act in a given way, feeling follows action. That's the fundamental of act enthusiastic. You can’t control how you feel, but you can if you start acting that way before long feeling follows it. It's again, in compartment.
[0:42:27] KM: I think when I read all of this, I feel like, why are schools not teaching life skills in classes, because you get out of class and it's like, we come to maturity and all of a sudden, you're set out and the pressures of experience and everything come down on you. You haven't really been taught, unless your mother was really active, or your father was really active. But a lot of times, you've just been going to school and coming home and you don't know all these life skills. I mean, why are we not teaching life skills and development for people, for young people when they get out on their own? Because I think a lot of them, I know my kids were a little bit shocked at what the world is like when you get out there. Of course, they had me to help them, but not everybody does.
[0:43:18] JERRY: That's right.
[0:43:19] JESSIE: Yeah. I think, that's definitely become more evident. I think as the workforce that we have, the aging workforce and people are having to be in the seats that are not fully prepared to be in the seats of in the leadership, or management. In a lot of ways, I think it has shined a light that we need those skills a lot earlier. I mean, that's the question that I've always asked myself, why are we not more into the schools?
[0:43:50] KM: Yeah. Finance is another one. Kids come out and don't know how to pay their taxes. The last thing, talking about fatigue, and then we'll go to a quick break. Preventing fatigue. The one that stuck out in my mind, there's a lot of. There's several of them that you can read in the book about how to stop worrying and start living. One of them though was resentment and anger. That that's very fatiguing. Talk about getting stuck in your brain.
[0:44:13] JESSIE: Says, don't worry about the past. One thing he says is, don't saw saw dust.
[0:44:18] KM: What?
[0:44:19] JESSIE: See, imagine you are sawing a piece of wood. Then, it's already been cut. Now you're trying to saw a sawdust from that. Makes complete sense.
[0:44:34] KM: Well, I have heard and that there's these little grooves in your brain. If you keep thinking the same negative stuff over and over, you're just going to map that groove in your brain over and over and over and then you just need to remap it another way. All right, this is a great place to take a break. This will be our last break. When we come back, we'll continue our conversation with the good people from Dale Carnegie, Mr. Jerry Wilson and Miss Jessie Wilson, no relation. They have been kind enough to share their knowledge of confidence and personal growth with us. He's laughing, because I keep saying no relation.
Interestingly, the Dale Carnegie Courses are as relevant today as they were a hundred years ago and seem to be the foundation for which many other self-help books and courses were written. These are easy to read books. I highly recommend you pick one up, or take a Dale Carnegie course. When we come back, we'll talk about how to sign up for the courses and how you can get involved. We'll be right back.
[0:45:23] GM: All UIYB past and present interviews are available at Up In Your Business with Kerry McCoy's YouTube channel, Facebook page, the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette's digital version, flagandbanner.com's website, or wherever you listen to podcasts. Just ask your smart speaker to play Up In Your Business with Kerry McCoy. By subscribing to our YouTube channel, or flagandbanner.com's email list, you will receive prior notification of that day's guest. Back to you, Kerry.
[0:45:48] KM: You're listening to Up in Your Business with me, Kerry McCoy, and I'm speaking today with the Dale Carnegie facilitators, Jessie Wilson and Jerry Wilson. We've been talking about the books that Dale Carnegie wrote and how they're still so relevant today. If you missed this show, you need to go back and listen. There are some great self-help tips. But if you've got the money, because it's not cheap anymore like it was when I went to Dale Carnegie's course, you can join some of their classes.
I think I'm going to take a speech class. Like Jessie was saying, you should probably take it every – you should probably take a course every time you change places in your life, which for me, seems to be about every decade. But every decade, I change. I saw a speaker speak one time and he said, if you're not changing your business at least every 10 years, you're not going to be in business the next 10 years. Boy, is that not true. This business has changed so much in my 40-plus years. How do people get involved with Dale Carnegie and what do you think is the best courses you have?
[0:46:51] JESSIE: I mean, really, we work more on an organization level. Like you had mentioned, from that managers and you say, “Wow, this has really resonated with me. I need my organization to do this.” Then it would be that the organization typically sponsors them to go through one of our programs. We can do that on site, or we have public offerings. For public offerings, they're the Dale Carnegie course, skills for success, which is the effective communications, human relations. Then we have a high-impact presentations. We do a sales training, winning with relationship selling and we do leadership training for results.
You can go to our website, dalecarnegie.com and you can – it has the geo location. You can put in Little Rock, or wherever you are. Then you can also email me. I'm Jessie, firstname.lastname@example.org.
[0:47:47] KM: Put that on the website, honey.
[0:47:50] JESSIE: Or LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn as well. They can just send a private message if they want to do that as well. Dale Carnegie, whether you are here and listening in Arkansas, we have programs, but we also have programs throughout the whole world.
[0:48:04] KM: Throughout the world. Ain’t that just crazy?
[0:48:06] JESSIE: Yeah.
[0:48:06] KM: I want to take a speech class. What do I do first?
[0:48:09] JESSIE: What do you do first? Well, the good news is that you're sitting right next to the person who can get you signed up for it. Then from that, we would just work on schedules and let you know –
[0:48:18] KM: Do I do it with a group of people? Is it a class?
[0:48:20] JESSIE: Yeah. It's a class.
[0:48:20] KM: How big is the class?
[0:48:22] JESSIE: The class is roughly around, I'd say, 20 to 25.
[0:48:26] KM: Oh, that’s a big class. How often does it – it's probably start on a specific day. How often is it offered a year?
[0:48:31] JESSIE: Usually, around three times a year that it will be offered.
[0:48:36] KM: Then it lasts how long?
[0:48:37] JESSIE: Could be that if you want to take the main Dale Carnegie course, it's eight sessions. I mean, one afternoon, a week for eight sessions. We offer that in also a three-day format.
[0:48:50] JERRY: Kerry, you might want to do the high-impact presentation.
[0:48:53] KM: What? Really?
[0:48:56] JERRY: It's focused on making great presentations.
[0:48:58] JESSIE: Yeah. That's what I'm thinking.
[0:49:00] JERRY: It's a small group and it's done in three days.
[0:49:02] JESSIE: Two days. Two days.
[0:49:04] JERRY: Two days now.
[0:49:05] KM: Okay. Well, you all are the experts. If that’s what you all say, then I have to take your –
[0:49:09] JERRY: You'll see on immediate – you'll see things immediately.
[0:49:12] KM: Do you want to tell people how much it is?
[0:49:13] JESSIE: Oh, yes. Let's say, if it's sending one person through that program, say the organization sending one person here in Little Rock, it's $1,750. What's really neat about this, Kerry, is that our core programs are credited. You can receive college credits, so for continuing education units, it's a certificate at the end. I think more times than not, you can see the sticker shock like, “Oh, my goodness. $1,750.” Yet, you are a part of 9 million graduates globally when you take that.
Say that you were leaving for another job, or you were wanting a promotion, then that is what people put on their resume that they have done that. Then, when we talk about on site, or private programs, those are going to be a program cost, versus just one person at a time it's going to be for all that.
[0:50:14] KM: All right. I've enjoyed visiting with y'all. Tell me what a sale blazer is, a sales blazer. I went to your LinkedIn page and it said, sales blazer. I was like, “What is a sales blazer?”
[0:50:25] JESSIE: Kerry, this is pretty neat, because Dale Carnegie, we're a part of that global organization. Because we are a household name in the rich history of Dale Carnegie, we have built a lot of really neat collaborations. We have recently, this year, collaborated with Salesforce. Salesforce –
[0:50:43] KM: The software?
[0:50:43] JESSIE: Yes. Like, Salesforce where you go and you plug in everything.
[0:50:48] KM: Cha-ching.
[0:50:49] JERRY: It’s awesome.
[0:50:51] JESSIE: Basically, when you are a Salesforce sales trail blazer, and I'm one of those, then that, they've picked out people, our top producers globally within Dale Carnegie.
[0:51:03] JERRY: You're talking with the lady that is the third highest producer within the international scope of Dale Carnegie.
[0:51:12] KM: Jessie, are you kidding me? Why was that not on your resume you sent me? Or was it? Did I miss it?
[0:51:18] JESSIE: No, no.
[0:51:18] KM: That should have been in your opening bio.
[0:51:20] JESSIE: Well, thank you.
[0:51:21] KM: You're welcome. You're welcome. Thank y'all. I have given both of you a US and an Arkansas flag for your desk set.
[0:51:27] JESSIE: Oh, yay.
[0:51:28] KM: But Jerry, I'm going to put a Virginia with yours. Jessie, I'm going to give you a Kansas flag to go with yours, before y'all leave, because I just found out when you got here, that's where y'all hailed from, or were born, or whatever.
[0:51:38] JERRY: Interesting. Thank you.
[0:51:40] JESSIE: Thank you.
[0:51:39] JERRY: Thanks to you.
[0:51:40] KM: Well, it’s been a great –
[0:51:41] JERRY: Been a pleasure, Kerry.
[0:51:42] JESSIE: It was.
[0:51:44] JERRY: I knew it would be.
[0:51:45] KM: Oh, you're sweet. In closing, I want to say to our listeners, thank you for spending time with us. We hope you've heard, or learned something that's been inspiring, or enlightening and that it, if you hadn't heard something that's been inspiring and enlightening, you hadn't been listening. But whatever it is, we hope it ups your independence, your life, or your business. I'm Kerry McCoy and I'll see you next time on Up in Your Business. Until then, be brave and keep it up.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:52:09] GM: You've been listening to Up in Your Business with Kerri McCoy. For links to resources you heard discussed on today's show, go to flagandnbanner.com, select radio show and choose today's guest. If you'd like to sponsor this show, or any show, email me, Gray, that's email@example.com. All interviews are recorded and posted the following week. Stay informed of exciting, upcoming guests by subscribing to our YouTube channel, or podcast wherever you like to listen. Kerry’s goal is simple, to help you live the American dream.