Original air date: June 2, 2017 rebroadcast Dec. 29, 2017
This episode is a rebroadcast of Kerry's interview with Tommy Jameson, who was recently featured in the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette’s High Profile section. We knew Tommy was a big deal – glad the #DemGaz caught on!
Tommy’s architectural firm focuses on the development of thoughtful, creative solutions for preserving historic structures. A cause that Kerry can certainly identify with.
And for even more proof of how great this guy is, on January 19, 2018 the Arkansas Preservaton Awards will present Tommy the Parker Westbrook Award for lifetime achievement in historic preservation.
Jameson Architects P.A.’s award winning work has helped to save many of the state’s irreplaceable historic structures. We will rebroadcast the June 2nd interview with updated content and commentary.
Tommy Jameson of Jameson Architects P.A. is a native Arkansan who graduated from the University of Arkansas in 1977, and has lived in Little Rock since that time. After becoming interested in historic architecture during his senior year of college, Tommy purchased his first historic home shortly after graduation. Since that time, he and his wife have rehabilitated three more historic homes, including the firm's offices in a 1904 Colonial Revival cottage near the Arkansas State Capitol and the 1936 Werner Knoop House in Little Rock’s Hillcrest neighborhood. Licensed since 1981, Jameson is deeply engaged in each project and provides design direction and project management.
In 1996, Jameson founded Jameson Architects P.A., which focuses on the development of thoughtful, creative preservation solutions for the community, the workplace and the home. In addition to basic architectural services, his team offers programming, existing building analysis, master planning and historic structure reports. The firm’s website states, “Our collaboration with a variety of specialized consultants offers unique, multidisciplinary insights for complex preservation issues that go beyond just architecture. Our goal for every project, large or small, is to fulfill the highest client expectations by creating sensitive design solutions for historic buildings, homes, or sites.”
Jameson Architects P.A.’s award winning work has helped to save many of the state’s irreplaceable historic structures. He is committed to an ongoing effort to preserve Arkansas’s architectural heritage.
Up In Your Business is a Radio Show by FlagandBanner.com
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[0:00:08.0] TB: Welcome to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. Be sure to stay tuned till the end of the show to hear how you can get a copy of this program and other helpful documents.
Now, it's time for Kerry McCoy to get all up in your business.
[0:00:23.5] KM: Thank you, Tim. Like Tim said, I’m Kerry McCoy and it’s time for me to get up in your business. I just love that song, ‘Takin care of business.’ I just dance every time it comes on. What is it? Bachman-Turner Overdrive?
[0:00:35.6] TB: That’s right.
[0:00:36.4] KM: I can’t believe I could pull that out of the air like that. That’s crazy. Before we start, I want to introduce the people at the table. We have Tim Bowen, our technician who’d be taking your calls and pushing the button. Say hello, Tim.
[0:00:47.5] TB: Hello, Tim.
[0:00:48.3] KM: Recording our show for our podcast next week is our technician Jessie. Thank you, Jessie.
[0:00:53.1] J: No problem.
[0:00:54.6] KM: It’s the holidays and everyone is traveling. Did you have a nice Christmas, Tim?
[0:00:59.8] TB: Yeah, absolutely. I got to surprise visit my parents. They loved it.
[0:01:04.3] KM: Are you being sarcastic?
[0:01:04.8] TB: No, no. Really. I did. I didn’t tell them I was coming. They thought I was not going to come at all this year and I just sneaked up and surprised them. My mom almost blew a gasket. She was so happy.
[0:01:17.0] KM: I can’t believe you haven’t told me that. I see you every day, all week and you have not told me how – that you met your mother happy over Christmas. Well, you know Christmas is a really special time for my family and some people might think this is a really weird thing for me to say.
One of the reasons why it’s such a special time is my grandfather died on Christmas day, my father died on Christmas day and my husband’s brother died on Christmas day. It’s a very holy day. Obviously, it’s Christmas. Christ mass and my mother went into hospice this week. She’s very close. Just miss them really bad.
I hope that instead of passing two weeks after Christmas that she would pass on Christmas, because we’re always all together on Christmas, and so we can always remember the people that have passed away, because we’re altogether. When we’re sitting down to eat, we all tell stories about them. It’s a lovely time to roll naturally together anyway that we get to remember all our loved ones.
Christmas is always really special for me. Sometimes families go and swap out Thanksgiving and Christmas. Well, I will always want Christmas and that’s why. Because everybody is out of pocket and we get to rerun another show.
I like that. I think out of the whole year and a half that we’ve been doing these shows, we rerun four, maybe five. We get to do another rerun and we picked this one, Tommy Jameson of Jameson Architects. He’s a preservationist.
We picked him for two reasons; he was recently the feature story in the Arkansas Democrat-Gazette High-Profile section. When I read that article, I felt like I was reading my interview again. Then the other reason why is because when January the 19th I think is, but is January 2018, the Arkansas Preservation Awards will present the Parker Westbrook Award for Lifetime Achievement in Historic Preservation to Tommy. He is so well overdue on that.
He has restored log cabins. Well, if you ever go to his website, you would be so impressed. In fact, I say that in this interview. I was listening – You heard it. Then look, Jessie is shaking his head. Jessie, it’s the radio. You can’t shake your head on the radio.
[0:03:23.8] J: I know. I know. I know.
[0:03:26.3] KM: I have to tell all my guest that all the time. Yes, he has a great website where you can go and see his restorations. I love old buildings and old men and old money and old whiskey.
This show we talked about the last time we did a rerun and how it became time to be, so I’m not going to bore everybody with that again. The show began with entrepreneurs in-line, and I wanted to use this show platform to pay forward my business knowledge and answer questions for entrepreneurs and want to be entrepreneurs in a conversational way. This show has done that.
Besides talking about business, we also morphed this show about the interviewee’s life and how they maneuver their path of leadership and entrepreneurship to fulfill their dreams. We do that through storytelling and that’s what this next – this rerun is going to be. It’s going to be how Tommy began to own his own business, Jameson Architect. It’s never straight path for anybody.
His was pretty straight though. His was straighter than most. He actually went to school in a degree that he actually ended up going into that career, which a lot of people don’t. You may be asking yourself, “What makes this woman qualified to do a show like this and to talk about this?” Well, Tim is going to tell you.
[0:04:45.0] TB: Over 40 years ago, with only $400 Kerry McCoy founded Arkansas Flag and Banner. During the last four decades, the business has grown and changed dramatically from door-to-door sales to telemarketing to mail order and catalog sales. Now Flag and Banner relies heavily on the internet, including our newest feature, live chatting.
Each decade required a change in sales and strategy procedures. Her business and leadership knowledge grew with time and experience, as well as the confidence to branch out into multimedia marketing that began with our non-profit dreamland ballroom, as well as our in-house publication Brave Magazine, to this very radio show you’re listening to now.
Each week on this show, you’re going to hear canid conversations between her and our guest about real-world experiences on a variety of businesses and topics that we hope you’ll find interesting. Kerry says that many business rules like, know how to treat your employees well, know your profit margin and have a succession plan can be applied across most industries.
What I find encouraging is her example that hard work pays off. Did you know that nine years while starting Flag and Banner she supplemented her income with many part-time jobs. That just shows that persistence, perseverance and patience will prevail.
Today, Flag and Banner host 10 departments and I have 25 co-workers. It reminds us all, small businesses are the fuel of our country’s economic engine and they do really empower people’s lives. If you would like to ask Kerry a question or share your experience or story, you can e-mail us at firstname.lastname@example.org.
[0:06:26.6] KM: Thank you, Tim. Are you guys ready to start the show?
[0:06:30.1] TB: Absolutely.
[0:06:31.2] KM: Okay, like I said, this is an architecture preservationist Tommy Jameson. It aired on June the 2nd of 2017. We’ll repost this particular rerun next week. If you want to go see or read the transcript from June the 2nd, you can. It tells you how he went from being an employee to opening his own architectural firm, what mistakes he thinks most homeowners make when renovating, and about the strict preservation laws, tax credits and how to apply. Enjoy.
[0:07:00.6] KM: Welcome to the table Tommy Jameson, founder of the award winning firm Jameson Architects PA. Tell everybody what PA means?
[0:07:08.6] TJ: Professional Association.
[0:07:11.1] KM: I googled it, I thought it meant professional architects.
[0:07:14.0] TJ: No, it’s like another way of saying incorporated.
[0:07:17.2] KM: Really?
[0:07:18.1] TJ: In Arkansas.
[0:07:18.6] KM: I learn something every day on my show. When describing yourself, you said you and your wife rehabilitated your home and office, is there a reason you used the word rehabilitated and not renovated?
[0:07:30.3] TJ: I prefer rehabilitation and that it…
[0:07:32.3] KM: I feel like it’s on drugs or something.
[0:07:34.1] TJ: It connotates keeping things that are significant possibly and adding things that make structures more livable. It’s not a restoration. Renovation makes it sound like you’re making it new.
[0:07:51.3] KM: Speaking of renovation and restoration. There is a difference when you – yes. I didn’t know this till I bought an old – until I bought the Taborian Hall in downtown Little Rock. When you call for your tax credits, they ask you, are you renovating or restoring? I was like, “I don’t know, what’s the difference?”
[0:08:13.1] TJ: Well restoration is when you are taking a structure to a particular date and time.
[0:08:19.0] KM: Now that’s which one?
[0:08:20.5] TJ: Restoration.
[0:08:21.5] KM: You’re restoring it…
[0:08:22.0] TJ: You're restoring to a particular time. If you’ve got a structure that is – for example, we’re working on a structure that was built in 1846, it was moved in 1886. Our first photograph and good documentation is about 1914, so we’re using a date of interpretation of 1914, 1910 to 1914. Early turn of the century, because we can’t move it back to where it was.
[0:08:50.8] KM: Because you don’t have a picture?
[0:08:51.6] TJ: Because it moved. It’s been moved about 80 feet, it was on the banks by Bartholomew and the bank was sloughing off so they moved the structure.
[0:08:59.5] KM: Is that Ann Bryant’s home?
[0:09:00.5] TJ: No, that is Hollywood Plantation, the Taylor House at Hollywood plantation.
[0:09:05.1] KM: I love that name.
[0:09:06.1] TJ: University of Arkansas in Monticello owns it now.
[0:09:08.2] KM: Okay.
[0:09:09.4] TJ: It’s in Drew County near Winchester, close to Selma; 10, 15 minutes form Dumas.
[0:09:17.9] KM: You’ve moved it and because you’ve…
[0:09:19.2] TJ: No, it moved. It was moved in before the turn in 1880’s. So, we can’t restore it to 1846 because you have to pick up – for restoration, you have to pick a particular date and time. Most residential work, houses that people live in are not restorations per se.
Now, there are exceptions to that. I mean if you look at Carl Miller’s Liberal house, that’s a restoration. Anything that’s added that’s modern is very hidden and concealed. But typically, restoration is taking a structure to a specific date and time, as accurately as possible where rehabilitation is taking those sensitive things about the structure and adding modern conveniences or uses or code compliancy issues or you think of the Old State House.
It’s a restoration. Those rooms are going back to the way they were although some rooms are rehabilitated because some are turning to galleries and extra walls are added.
[0:10:18.6] KM: Yeah.
[0:10:20.0] TJ: There are differences.
[0:10:21.6] KM: The dreamland Ballroom on the third floor of the Arkansas Flag and Banner building, I am not taking it back to any time, any particular time, I’m leaving it just as raw…
[0:10:32.7] TJ: Well you can throw in another word and that will be conservation. To conserve it like it like it is.
[0:10:39.7] KM: Oh, is that new?
[0:10:40.3] TJ: No. it’s not used very often.
[0:10:43.1] KM: Because that wasn’t a question they asked me.
[0:10:44.7] TJ: Right, but that could be a good answer for you.
[0:10:48.5] KM: And all three of those are eligible for tax credits?
[0:10:51.0] TJ: Yes.
[0:10:53.8] KM: Can very many people do that without hiring you? I don’t want to get too much into this because of the second part of our show but.
[0:10:59.1] TJ: Sure.
[0:10:59.8] KM: They can do that on their own?
[0:11:00.9] TJ: It can be done on your own. There is folks at the Arkansas Historic Preservation Program that will help through those processes.
[0:11:08.8] KM: Did you go to college to be an architect?
[0:11:11.2] TJ: Yes.
[0:11:12.1] KM: How did you know you want to be an architect? Nobody goes to school for what they think they’re going to be when they grow up to be. You are one of the few people I’ve interviewed that actually got a degree and working that degree.
[0:11:22.2] TJ: I was in 11th grade at Hall High and sat down for the first time with a guidance counselor. She looked at my grades and what I was doing and I was acing all the mechanical drawing classes. I was doing well in math and sciences and she said, “What do you want to do?”
I said “Well, I was thinking about commercial art, because I had always been – my mother had been an art major and I was – got a lot of ribbons in elementary school doing elementary art and that kind of thing.” I said, “I’m thinking maybe commercial art.” She said, “Have you ever considered architecture?” and I went, “No.” But started thinking about it.
About that time, my dad was with Union National bank and they were building their new tower and got some tours of that and I started thinking “Yeah, this could be pretty neat.”
[0:12:13.3] KM: Your father was in construction?
[0:12:15.2] TJ: Banking.
[0:12:16.4] KM: Your father was in banking?
[0:12:17.0] TJ: He was with the bank as they we building their new building. We ended up moving to Melbourne, Arkansas for my senior year high school and I applied at Two Lane to go to architecture school, started looking at architecture schools and Two Lane was one of the better schools in the country at the time. My grades weren’t quite good enough to get there so they put me on a waiting list and I basically said, “I didn’t really want to go there anyway.”
I applied to Fayetteville and went to Fayetteville.
[0:12:50.1] KM: That’s a great story, did you write that counselor a thank you note ever?
[0:12:54.6] TJ: I couldn’t tell you her name right now, to save my life.
[0:12:58.2] KM: Well, you know, that’s a – if any guidance counselors are out there listening, they do make a difference in children’s lives.
[0:13:03.1] TJ: They can. It did with me.
[0:13:03.6] KM: Absolutely. Well this is a great place to take – one thing I want to ask you, is architecture a four-year degree?
[0:13:10.2] TJ: Five. I think it’s basically six now, but it was five. To get a Bachelor of Architecture when I was there, ‘72 through ‘77, it was five years.
[0:13:20.7] KM: Right, this is a great place to take a break, when we come back, we’re going to hear from Tommy who went from being an employee to opening his own architecture firm and what that was like, what mistakes he thinks most homeowners make when they’re renovating and about the strict preservation laws, tax credits and how to apply.
You’re listening to Up in your business, my guest is the architect and preservationist, Tommy Jameson of Jameson Architects.
You’re listening to Up in your business with Kerry McCoy. I’m speaking today with the highly knowledgeable preservationist, Tommy Jameson of Jameson architects. He’s making a roll in his eyes when I said highly knowledgeable, you are.
Just that first intro shows how much you know. You worked for somebody for 20 years. Who did you work for? Tell us about those years.
[0:14:24.6] TJ: Well, I ended up having a great opportunity to work for [inaudible 0:14:27.7], one of the three big firms in town in the summer of 1976, between my fourth and fifth year. It made my last year in college great because they wanted me to come back. I had a job.
[0:14:43.8] KM: When you graduated college? Wouldn’t kids love that today?
[0:14:46.6] TJ: That last semester, all my friends were putting resumes together and getting ready to go look at and I’m going, “Let’s go to Dixon street.”
[0:14:55.9] KM: I don’t have to do that.
[0:14:57.8] TJ: I worked for the Blast firm for two years, just under two years and had bought a house. I decided I wanted to come back and buy a historic house. I graduated, I moved back to Little Rock. I was living with my parents in Jacksonville at the time and started looking and found a house actually one block away from where we’re sitting right now, at 2119 Scott and purchased it, moved in on the 4th of July and started rehabilitating.
[0:15:28.6] KM: What year was that?
[0:15:29.7] TJ: 1977.
[0:15:31.3] KM: It really was the – wasn’t that the same year you graduated?
[0:15:33.6] TJ: It was two months after I graduated.
[0:15:35.5] KM: You’re like 21 or two or something?
[0:15:37.0] TJ: Three, five years of college.
[0:15:38.8] KM: That’s right.
[0:15:41.8] TJ: Started getting involved in the QQA and…
[0:15:45.0] KM: Tell everybody what QQA mean.
[0:15:46.5] TJ: Quarter Association, Greater Little Rock’s Preservation Organization. I was doing some volunteer work, I was driving a bus, a van one afternoon for some small tour or something, one of the individuals, given it said, ”Well, what are you doing?” And all that sort of thing. I explained that I was a young intern architect and whatnot and that I’ve had my house on Scott street and she said, “I’ve heard of this two guys that left the Cromwell firm, starting their own firm to do historic work and in-fill projects and historic neighborhoods.”
I said, “That sounds neat.” She said, “I hear they’re looking for people. Looking for a person even.” That was Charles [inaudible 0:16:26.5] and Don Evans. I joined them in ‘79 and spent 15 years working directly with Charles and of course with Don also. The firm grew up from there were four of us, five of us to a 20-person firm, 18, 16, 18, 20 somewhere around in there.
I was happy. I grew up as – I became – I got licensed while there, became an associate, a senior associate and then a junior partner.
[0:16:54.9] KM: Really?
[0:16:55.3] TJ: Yeah. That was up until ’94. In ‘94, things were fine at WR but I ran into an old friend and we spoke about work and he said, “We ought to talk” and we talked every other night for a couple of weeks and I resigned and joined him.
That was Robin Bourne.
[0:17:22.3] KM: Yeah.
[0:17:24.4] TJ: We were Bourne and Jameson for two and a half years and then that led up to ‘96 when we decided to part and I started Jameson Architects. Took one of our employees and moved down 12 feet and over 20 feet above café Bosa Nova. We were there for several years until I had a great landlord, I just hated writing that check every month.
I started looking around to develop an office and that’s when I found 300 Pulaski. It will be 19 years this 4th of July that we completed the renovation, rehabilitation and moved in to 300 Pulaski.
[0:18:04.6] KM: Is there anything about starting your own firm that you were surprised to know that you didn’t expect?
[0:18:11.7] TJ: Well, I suppose in a way, I sort of eased into it by having the two and a half year partnership with Robin. We had a thriving little business, but our practices were so different. We were like two small firms working under the same roof.
[0:18:30.5] KM: Because you did preservation.
[0:18:32.3] TJ: And he was doing medical-oriented work. We shared a staff and so – it was really quite easy when I started my own business. I had a sort of a breaking-in period and I had never aspired to have my own business, it was just suddenly at that point in my career at nearly 20 years out, I thought I can do this.
[0:18:56.5] KM: Yeah, you had the confidence.
[0:18:57.4] TJ: Just sort of came upon me, yeah.
[0:19:00.7] KM: So there wasn’t one catalyst that just said “today’s the day?”
[0:19:03.3] TJ: Nope.
[0:19:05.2] KM: You didn’t have any real surprises about it but what’s the most challenging thing you think probably today about owning your own small business and how many employees do you have?
[0:19:13.9] TJ: Well, I have three full time employees and a part time office manager. There’s five and a half, four and a half of us. I think the – I love to say the phrase, “owning your business is great, you only have to work a half a day and you get to pick which 12 hours.”
All of the things; I have the manager’s hat, I have the janitor’s hat, I have the landlord hat, I have the HR hat, I have the IT hat. Then I’ve got projects to do.
[0:19:47.9] KM: Yeah.
[0:19:49.0] TJ: The demands on your time are significant because you don’t have anybody to dole those responsibilities out to or at least I don’t have 25 employees such as you do.
[0:19:59.7] KM: Yeah. I like having more employees, some people are like, “I don’t want to grow, small is beautiful, I don’t want to grow,” because you do end up doing HR work and really, that’s about all I do anymore.
I love having a lot of employees because you get to delegate and do other things, you're not like you said, having to be everything to everybody.
[0:20:22.2] TJ: Right, in a small architectural firm though, I’m the only licensed architect, so I am the ultimate responsible party. There’s liability issues and all those kinds of things so growing a small architectural firm with a lot of people under you still, it all still has to funnel across my desk.
[0:20:40.9] KM: I was going to ask you if how – who the four employees were and were they independent architects that are just kind of renting a space at your office, they all actually work for you – on your projects that you're working on?
[0:20:52.4] TJ: Yes. They each have three to four projects a piece.
[0:20:56.2] KM: That are your projects?
[0:20:56.8] TJ: So I’ve got 12.
[0:20:58.4] KM: Right. That is a lot of work.
[0:21:02.0] TJ: Yeah, generally, I’ve had a lot of employees over the years and I don’t know that I’ve done anything to run anybody off, but I’ve gotten – my senior employee has been with me 10 years, I’ve got a young lady that’s been with me four years, a young lady that’s been with me two years.
One’s just passed all the tests and two are in the queue to do their intern development program to gain the experience that you have to have before you sit for the exam to become a licensed architect.
[0:21:36.9] KM: Well that’s nice of you. You’re kind of paying it forward.
[0:21:40.1] TJ: Well, that’s how the profession generally works, I mean, college teaches you how to design. Once you get out, you start learning how buildings go together.
[0:21:51.8] KM: And how to work with customers.
[0:21:53.0] TJ: By doing the drawings and also how to work with people.
[0:21:56.9] KM: The city.
[0:21:58.0] TJ: And the city.
[0:21:58.4] KM: Working with the city is a big deal..
[0:21:59.4] TJ: And the state.
[0:22:00.2] KM: And the state. If you’re doing task, there’s the federal government.
[0:22:03.5] TJ: Via the state. The state’s sort of the gate keeper for that.
[0:22:07.1] KM: Good, we’re going to talk about that in the next segment but right now…
[0:22:09.4] TJ: I don’t do federal work.
[0:22:11.3] KM: You don’t?
[0:22:11.8] TJ: No, I find it frustrating.
[0:22:15.7] KM: Thank you, I even wrote that, that when every time I call the federal government I’m frustrated and I edited it out before I came on the show because I thought, I don’t want to talk negatively about the federal government but it is frustrating to call up there.
[0:22:27.6] TJ: It’s a big operation and I’ve always, when I was in my career at the Whitsell firm, I was sort of known as a small projects guy. But worked on a prospective development study for expanding the capital avenue post office in Courts building. Well you know how long ago that got done. Not many years ago.
[0:22:48.7] KM: Where is that?
[0:22:49.4] TJ: Capitol in Broadway. The huge courts expansion. I started working on that in 1994 and it got finished about five or six years ago.
[0:23:01.0] KM: As an artist person, it’s probably frustrating.
[0:23:03.2] TJ: It took a very long time and I personally just prefer the more rapid turnover of smaller projects.
[0:23:09.0] KM: Well, I think you can be more creative.
[0:23:11.3] TJ: Well, and you get more opportunity too and you get bogged down in less bureaucracy.
[0:23:15.7] KM: What are you most proud of speaking of projects, is it a project you're proud of, your company mission, your management style, what would you say you’re most proud of right now?
[0:23:24.1] TJ: I’d suppose, when I go back and look through the projects we’ve done, it’s what we’ve accomplished. We’ve managed to work on some of the oldest log structures on the state from the Jacob Wolf House built in 1829 to the Rice-Upshaw house up in Randolph County in the 1828 and 1832 structure up there, now the 1846 Taylor House at Hollywood Plantation.
Those projects have – those buildings were not going to be here much longer and so they’ve really been saved and I feel good about that. I enjoyed seeing John Cane just a minute ago because Mosaic Templars is one of my favorite projects, I feel that that was a pivotal project at the corner of 9th and Broadway, the fire was tragic but you know, the legacy of the building lives on.
[0:24:22.0] KM: It looks beautiful.
[0:24:22.8] TJ: I did my first cost test on that building in 95 working for John and a group of volunteers that were trying to save it.
[0:24:30.8] KM: It looks beautiful.
[0:24:31.9] TJ: Thank you. It was beautiful before
[0:24:34.7] KM: It was, it looks very similar to what it looked like before, you all did a great – you and John did a great job.
[0:24:40.3] TJ: I think the administration, that department of heritage and I came up with the term, it’s a Faithful Facsimile.
[0:24:46.4] KM: Was there anything in the corner stone? You know how they said, the corner stones are awful hollow and they have stuff in them, was there anything in Mosaic Templars corner stone?
[0:24:52.5] TJ: There were a couple of things and I can’t remember exactly what all was there, but the one thing I do remember was there was a letterhead from Frank Blazedale, the architect.
[0:25:04.3] KM: Really?
[0:25:05.0] TJ: It was just a letterhead.
[0:25:06.3] KM: No words?
[0:25:06.9] TJ: No words on it.
[0:25:07.6] KM: He didn’t say a thing about build the…?
[0:25:08.9] TJ: Not a thing but he put a piece of his letterhead in the cornerstone.
[0:25:12.8] KM: I can’t believe he didn’t say “fun to work on this project.”
[0:25:16.5] TJ: They have the other – well, we did some things like that to go on the new cornerstone.
[0:25:21.6] KM: Good. Can you tell us what’s in the time capsule on the new cornerstone or is it a secret?
[0:25:25.1] TJ: I really don’t’ remember everything about it. I mean, I remember I put a piece of letterhead.
[0:25:29.6] KM: I was going to say…
[0:25:30.2] TJ: I wrote some words.
[0:25:32.3] KM: Thank you Tommy. You're going to live long afterwards. I wonder what’s in the corner stone of my building. Can you X-ray it?
[0:25:42.0] TJ: Yeah, but you know, something like paper doesn’t show up.
[0:25:45.6] KM: Do you just have to leave it forever?
[0:25:47.7] TJ: I’m not sure you can X-ray through stone.
[0:25:49.8] KM: Do you have to leave it forever? Does anybody ever take it out and look at it?
[0:25:53.9] TJ: I think that’s done, I’m not sure what the protocol is there.
[0:25:59.5] KM: I went to your website, I’ve been to your website a lot of times but I just went to it today, oh my gosh, you’ve updated it and I love how you have on your website dates that you can click on the date like 1840 to 1880 and you click on there and you see all the renovations from that time.
[0:26:18.5] TJ: That was the best way we could – we found that we could organize the body work. It’s also organized by building types but so many things, you can click like, residences but those are buildings that are or once were residences for example, the office is under residences because it was a house.
But the dates are particularly interesting and I thought that would be a good way for a potential client if they had a structure, if you have a craftsman structure, you’re not necessarily interested in the 1840’s structures. You could just go to that time era and see the projects that we’ve done.
[0:26:58.8] KM: I love it, you’ve got like five or six eras, it’s like 1840 to 1880.
[0:27:04.8] TJ: Sort of naturally clustered themselves into styles. Yeah.
[0:27:07.8] KM: There’s so many new projects in there since the last time I looked.
[0:27:11.8] TJ: Well, we updated the website a year and a half ago.
[0:27:16.4] KM: The body of work is incredible, those log cabins that you’ve done are just remarkable.
[0:27:22.7] TJ: Thank you, they’ve been – it’s rather like forensic architecture. Because when something’s been around that long, it’s always been changed and then majority of those structures, we were trying to restore to a particular date as in early construction era and so finding those clues within the building of how old the nail is.
You can look at a nail and you can tell if it’s a modern wire nail or if it’s an old cut nail or if it’s a hand rot nail. There are things about the way things go together that help you understand when things happen so you know, if we’re going to this date then that’s later, I need to take that out.
[0:28:04.9] KM: You’ve done that into my house, you went into my house because you added an addition to my back room and I called you and I said, ”I’m going to put a room over here” because my home is actually older than the Taborian Hall. Hard to believe but it’s six years older.
It’s an old frame craftsman house and I wanted to – didn’t have a TV room, a media room. I called you and asked you if you do a media room for me and I was going to put it over here and you were like, “No. It needs to go over here” and then you did a walk around the house, you matched all the windows, nobody can tell it’s an add-on.
Then you went to my side porch and you told me stuff about my side porch I didn’t realize. It was exactly like you said, it was forensic work, you were like, “This is an add-on.” I was like, “Really?”
[0:28:48.5] TJ: That’s just from experience, that’s just working on a variety of structures and paying attention and looking for the clues.
[0:28:53.8] KM: You did the same thing at the Taborian Hall. You said, “This is the old building built in late 1800’s, this part was added on the 1916,” I was like “what?” You’re like, “see that roof underneath? See the change in the brick” and I was like, “absolutely,” made total sense once you pointed it out to me.
Has Tommy Jameson or Jameson’s Architect won awards for all the work you’ve done?
[0:29:18.4] TJ: We have won some awards.
[0:29:20.0] KM: I bet you have.
[0:29:22.1] TJ: Yeah, there’s a number of venues that that architects can submit their work to get awards.
[0:29:28.3] KM: You don’t have time to do all that.
[0:29:29.8] TJ: Well, that is very time consuming and it’s expensive.
[0:29:34.5] KM: You know how great you are.
[0:29:35.3] TJ: To enter a project and say the Arkansas Chapter AI Awards, you have to prepare a large board that is 30x40 inches and with text on it and colored glossy photos and you’ve got to hire professional photography and so we’ve only received one state award, the other thing that happens in big award projects, you’re often times not necessarily in competition with new work, which is sort of in competition with new work.
It all depends I believe on the jury. Whether the jury is in tune with preservation work or not.
[0:30:13.2] KM: That’s right.
[0:30:14.6] TJ: Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. The majority of our awards are from preservation entities such as Historic Preservation Alliance of Arkansas. We’re doing the work that they appreciate and so that’s where we gotten the bulk of our awards.
[0:30:28.0] KM: How do you get new customers? Word of mouth?
[0:30:31.8] TJ: Probably our work right now is averaging over the last 10 or 15 years, it’s probably averaging about 70 to 75% repeat clients.
[0:30:41.1] KM: Really?
[0:30:41.4] TJ: In the state of Arkansas is one of our best clients, the Department or Heritage, we’ve worked for all four of their museums, currently working for two. Mosaic Templars was part of Department Heritage, women on call contract at The Old State House, we’ve been working for the Delta Cultural Center for 22 years.
And have done virtually all of their work in the last 22 years. That’s been ongoing work, it’s a lot of repeat work and it’s word of mouth, it’s internet and it’s website and…
[0:30:41.4] KM: Well with that website, you ought to do good Tommy, that’s beautiful. I look at a lot of websites, that’s a beautiful website. The listeners are interested in architecture, they need to go there and look at it.
[0:31:24.3] TJ: We were working on the rehabilitation of the Folk building at third and main for a development company called Tera Forma and CJRW Advertising was going to be the tenants, we were working very closely with the staff at CJRW, as well as working for our owner who is paying the bills.
Developed a great Rapport with them and they do website design and…
[0:31:52.0] KM: Well, no wonder it looks good. Yeah, no wonder you got the big dogs to make it, it’s really nice. This is a great place to take a break. When we come back, Tommy is going to tell us all about preservation laws, historical tax credits and how to apply and who can help you apply. We’ll also get him to tell us what mistakes he sees most home owners make when renovating.
Tommy, I love this quote from the national trust of historic preservation. I got it off your website.
“The greenest building is the one that is already built.”
[0:32:23.2] TJ: Right.
[0:32:23.7] KM: That’s just so true. People just want to go and tear an old wonderful building with old wonderful wood and beams that are like – you know, when I was doing a dreamland ballroom, I have in the ceilings this 12x12 inch wood beams that were cut from an oak tree and they were going to burn them and put in 2x4’s and I was like, “no, don’t throw those right there to me are pieces of art, you can’t even get trees like that anymore.”
[0:32:58.8] TJ: I was going to say, it’s better material than you can go buy now.
[0:33:03.5] KM: How do we change those mindsets of people?
[0:33:06.1] TJ: Well I think slowly it’s working, I mean, the preservation movement started in the late 60’s. The 60’s was an era that was not kind to historic buildings between urban renewal and the thing that things that everybody else did.
Preservation started in the late 60’s here in Little Rock with Cromwell and John Trumper from the Cromwell Firm and that got Charles involved and interested. It’s grown and so you look at this neighborhood now versus when I would in this neighborhood in 77.
You see the impact of the positive side that capital zoning district commission has had, that the McArthur Park Historic District Commission has had in protecting that neighborhood down around McArthur Park.
Things are looking a lot better. The frontiers are moving westward and there’s central high neighborhood and the movement is going west. There’s been a lot of progress made, the part that I find challenging I suppose right now are in towns like in east Arkansas where they Agrarian economy has changed and the population is down. I mean Helena, one of my sayings about Helena is Helena has more historic buildings than people to take care of them.
I think it’s related to how many people did farm to take a thousand acres 60 years ago and how many it takes now and it was probably like 50 and it’s like three now. That’s frustrating for me because we’ve done a lot of work in east Arkansas and there’s been wonderful architecture that’s been lost there.
[0:34:46.4] KM: Yeah, some of it is burned accidentally from abandonment.
[0:34:49.6] TJ: When families been in town a long time and then they want their children to move elsewhere and have a better life or whatever and then they own property and then that generation passes on and then you have a building that’s owned by multiple descendants all over the country and it’s hard for them to put money into that building. It substantially is demolition by neglect is the largest –
[0:35:16.9] KM: That’s what happened to 9th street.
[0:35:17.4] TJ: cost for losing buildings.
[0:35:19.6] KM: That’s what happened to 9th street.
[0:35:20.6] TJ: Nobody can afford to keep them up.
[0:35:22.2] KM: Right and I know a lot of people like the government should come in and save them but they can’t go around doing that.
[0:35:27.5] TJ: Tax base isn’t that great.
[0:35:29.6] KM: Right. Let’s talk about tax credits. It’s not as simple as it sounds. You get tax credits if you fall – You can start at that.
[0:35:39.7] TJ: Okay, there’s two major sort of avenues of tax credits, one is federal tax credits and to do any tax credit project or to get tax credits on any project, the door is opened by being on the national register or being a contributing structure in a national register district. If you’re not there, it doesn’t work, you have to start there.
You have to have a structure that’s significant that the government feels like it significant. Federal tax credits have been around since the preservation tax laws went in like 76 and weren’t substantially used until the end of 80’s and 90’s.
They are a little unwieldy, you can use them, not everybody can use a federal tax credit, for example, my wife and I did tax credits on my office but because of alternative minimum tax, we’re getting the tax credits at a very small amount per year and are probably going to expire in another year before I get to use them all.
[0:36:45.7] KM: Because they last 15 years right?
[0:36:47.5] TJ: I think 20.
[0:36:48.8] KM: Oh, okay.
[0:36:49.3] TJ: I think it’s 20. Now, that’s the federal tax credits and the federal tax credits are not transferable.
[0:36:55.4] KM: I thought you could buy them.
[0:36:56.8] TJ: You can’t sell them.
[0:36:57.5] KM: You can’t sell your tax credits?
[0:36:59.2] TJ: Federal
[0:36:59.7] KM: You can sell your state?
[0:37:00.8] TJ: Correct. Which is a new thing and I’ll get to that. The federal tax credits are just a little more burdensome. My understanding has been, they always work best for a larger developer that may have a lot of passive income. As supposed to the working stiff like me. You have to be careful with federal tax credits that you’re really able to utilize.
[0:37:20.8] KM: You have to be really rich.
[0:37:22.6] TJ: Well, or, do a lot of development and have a lot of passive income. I mean, I think that’s…
[0:37:27.6] KM: You can still take your tax credits but they’re just not going to be as anywhere near offsetting the cost of renovation.
[0:37:35.9] TJ: Well, that’s 20% for federal tax credits. I have clients fortunately that can use them. They are good and they do play a big role in leveraging larger projects.
[0:37:49.1] KM: But you don’t ever get to use your full 20% a year because of the minimum tax.
[0:37:53.3] TJ: Alternative minimum tax. I spoke with Blanch Lincoln, Vic Snider for years, I’ve talked about that, the story always comes back that alternative minimum tax was as I understand which may or may not be fully correct is that it was legislation in the 60’s to close loopholes and what were then wealthy people.
It’s a way that sort of make sure they don’t slide through. Well, it was not index for inflation. What was wealthy in the 1960’s as my wife and I are working now both having full time jobs. It was not indexed for inflation and I think what Vic used to tell me was there’s so much revenue that comes from alternative minimum tax that in the federal government, if you’re going to do away with something, you got to find another way to make up their revenue and so that way, it hasn’t changed.
It’s not right as it seem but it hasn’t changed. Arkansas, I can’t remember exactly when Arkansas tax credits came in six or eight years ago or something like that. It might even be older because time passes fast.
Arkansas has now a 25% historic tax credit and that is for your state taxes. That legislation was passed in recent past, recent memory which is layered on top of federal tax credits if you do both but it was modeled, our legislation was modeled after other states to where those tax credits are marketable and there are entities that when you get your state tax credits, if you choose not to use them yourself, they can be sold for roughly 85 cents on the dollar or something like that and it can be an instant revenue generator to help offset cost of your project. Just recently just this year, the tax credit base has been elevated. It was 25% of up to half a million dollars.
Well as an entry level legislation that worked pretty good because that meant you could get up to 125,000 in tax credits and it could work for residential which federal tax credits don’t. Federal tax credits have to be for income producing property where you own your house, if you rehabilitated your house now and it would be a contributing structure in the Hill Crest Historic District, you could get tax credits for it.
So there’s a whole lot more people getting state tax credits now than there were in the past with just federals and it’s working so well that our legislature saw to raise that limit of the 125 max credit is now 400 and so it’s working better for a larger projects instead of the first 500. Say you have a project that is $3 million. Well, if you applied for state tax credits, you only get your credit on the first 500. Now it’s more.
[0:40:52.0] KM: So the Taborian Hall if we decide to put in an elevator could get tax credits that way?
[0:40:57.7] TJ: Most likely, yeah.
[0:40:59.3] KM: That might even pay for an elevator.
[0:41:01.2] TJ: It will pay for 25%. It’s 25% of your rehabilitation cost.
[0:41:04.8] KM: Every time I have this show I learn something.
[0:41:09.5] TJ: And so you –
[0:41:10.1] KM: Can it be retroactive for any work you’ve done in the past?
[0:41:12.2] TJ: No.
[0:41:13.5] KM: It’s only going forward.
[0:41:14.1] TJ: Because then you need to get an approval first and then go forward.
[0:41:17.2] KM: And you can double up your federal tax credits and your state tax credits.
[0:41:20.3] TJ: Yeah.
[0:41:20.7] KM: Who do you call to do that?
[0:41:22.3] TJ: Arkansas Historic Preservation Program. The young man there named Tom Mar, well he’s not so young anymore. He was when he used to work for me but.
[0:41:32.8] KM: So that’s where he’s gone to work huh?
[0:41:33.7] TJ: Yeah.
[0:41:35.3] KM: So you can use those up to 20 years?
[0:41:38.6] TJ: Federal.
[0:41:39.9] KM: Federal and the state can be used instantly because you could sell it.
[0:41:42.9] TJ: Because you could sell it.
[0:41:43.8] KM: And then when you talk about consultants, you say you’re a full project manager. You manage the whole project on your website you say you’re not just an architect, you’re a project manager.
[0:41:53.4] TJ: Correct.
[0:41:53.9] KM: Which separates you from a lot of others. You don’t just do drawings and then walk away.
[0:41:57.9] TJ: Right.
[0:41:59.2] KM: Is a consultant part of your project management? Do you have a consultant that helps people with their tax credits? Is that part of your project management or do you give them to the guy that worked for you at the state and say?
[0:42:12.5] TJ: No, he’s a state employee and he’s the gatekeeper. He’s who you give the forms to and he’s who approves it locally and sends it onto the National Park Service for federal. So he’s the gatekeeper from where you start to get approval for your tax credits. If we have a client that wants to do a historic tax credits, we often times will, as sort of an additional service, assist them in their application for tax credits, yes and it’s a situation where you are documenting your building as it stands now.
And then you document through drawings and photographs what you’re going to do to the building and that’s your application basically. There’s a lengthy wordy description process that goes in where you describe windows, what’s there now and what are you going to do to them. Are you going to repair them or replace them, update them or whatever you’re going to do and you describe exterior surfaces and the roof and windows and the doors and the masonry and the paint and the walls inside and the floors and everything that’s there.
It’s a snap shot of what you’re building in this now and then what you’re going to do to it. You submit that at the state and or National Park Service approves it, the project goes out and you build the project then that’s the part one and the part two to get to there and then part three is when the project is over. You document everything again and you show them that this is what we said we’re going to do, here’s what we did and then you get your tax credits.
[0:43:45.0] KM: And you can’t get this tax credits unless you follow specific rules that they –
[0:43:50.3] TJ: Correct. The guideline for all restoration rehabilitation work is called The Secretary of the Interiors Guidelines for Historical Buildings.
[0:43:59.7] KM: And is that firm or is it every project specific?
[0:44:10.8] TJ: Every project is different but there are if you cook it down to a few key things it is. It is better to repair than replace. If that neck could go for windows, for siding, for brick, for flooring, for anything. They are encouraging you to keep your historic fabric and to make changes, if you have to make changes, make changes that are sensible. For example the Folk Building. That has been a military surplus for 40 plus years. It had been former retail on second floor and third floor.
They were big open spaces to rehabilitate it for business office use, we added two fire stairs, we added an elevator, we added bathrooms, yet it was done in a way where you see significant fabric of the building. The cast iron columns that went down the middle are still there and you still see them. You have some sense of the open volume of those spaces and that was a federal in state tax credit project and then that one we did do the application for the owner.
[0:45:15.0] KM: I think that seems like the federal in state liked to see all the exposed new work that you do.
[0:45:20.8] TJ: Yes, well you know, it depends and it depends on what design element you’re saying or you’re referring to.
[0:45:27.0] KM: And once you’ve done the project are you forever held and you’ve got your tax credits, next time you want to do something do you have to go back and get it approved or are you forever held at that?
[0:45:37.3] TJ: For a federal tax credit, you have to hold the building for five years because it’s income produce and you have to keep it. You can’t just flip it the next year. So for Federal you have to keep it and I think there are similar rules on state.
[0:45:51.5] KM: After five years if you decide you want to do something that is not completely approved by the National Park Services is that okay or would you get in trouble?
[0:46:00.4] TJ: Unless you want to get tax credits again for it.
[0:46:03.1] KM: You could do it again then?
[0:46:03.8] TJ: Yes.
[0:46:05.2] KM: That’s really interesting.
[0:46:06.4] TJ: You can do another phase or you could have a whole other project. Now with that being said, if you have any grant money involved, generally there are strings put on a conservation these men have put on the building to get the grant money. If you had a non-profit that owned Taborian Hall and you applied for a grant and you got a grant as a non-profit or whatever then they would give you that grant money but there would be a conservation with these men on the building saying that:
“This building needs to stay the way it is unless you come to us and seek approval first” in other words, you couldn’t go do what you wanted to do. You’d have to say, “This is what I want to do. Guys here’s what I am going to do but I am doing it properly” and it would be approved and then you could do it.
[0:46:53.6] KM: So it’s an open – if you get a grant to do your work which is free money.
[0:46:57.5] TJ: There’s strings tied to it.
[0:46:58.4] KM: There are strings tied to it and it usually isn’t open ended strings forever.
[0:47:03.2] TJ: True.
[0:47:03.7] KM: So there’s not like you only have five years.
[0:47:05.7] TJ: True which is similar to a conservation easement that you might do on your house, which is an option. You can donate an easement on your house to the State of Arkansas, to the Arkansas Historic Preservation Program and say that this structure won’t be changed without their approval.
[0:47:25.0] KM: Donate an easement, what does that mean?
[0:47:26.7] TJ: Well it means you are giving away some value of your house because you’re saying it won’t be changed without their approval. So you are tying the same strings that you would with a grant around it and for that you get somewhere between a 10% or 15% charitable contribution of the appraised value.
[0:47:45.1] KM: You mean, they’ll give you money?
[0:47:45.9] TJ: No, you get it like you gave it to your church. It’s a tax deduction.
[0:47:50.3] KM: Oh a charitable contribution like you gave it to a non-profit.
[0:47:55.7] TJ: Yeah, exactly.
[0:47:56.6] KM: But then you would be forever tied to that?
[0:48:00.8] TJ: It’s a conservation easement that goes in perpetuity.
[0:48:03.4] KM: And what does perpetuity mean?
[0:48:04.5] TJ: Forever.
[0:48:05.5] KM: Oh gosh, why are my guests so smart? Well I think that’s all really, really –
[0:48:12.8] TJ: So that’s federal tax credits, that’s state tax credits, that’s conservation easements, those are the three tools. The three primary tools that can assist in renovating, rehabilitating, restoring historic structures.
[0:48:26.8] KM: What do you think is the biggest mistake most homeowners make? I can’t imagine working with a homeowner in their personal home space and they seem like they’d be hysterical all the time.
[0:48:39.6] TJ: Probably the biggest single thing is replacing their windows and everybody is bombarded by marketing where folks want neither change those energy wasting windows for their new vinyl triple glazed yada-yada-yada. Replacing windows is a high – windows in a historic structure are a major character defining element and when those are changed there is a lot lost. If a structure has had its windows replaced, it may not be eligible for the national register.
It’s that strong. It could prevent you from doing any tax credits because the windows have been replaced. So windows are a mistake that everybody thinks that because the guys on TV say they’re energy wasting that they can’t be fixed. Well a historic wood window is just in the symbol-age of parts and any part of that window can be repaired and that window can be scrapped down and the sails primed and painted and upper sash sealed and put a stone window on it and it can perform every bit as good if not better than a brand new window.
[0:49:53.6] KM: You know, I don’t ever have to worry about carbon monoxide poisoning in any of my –
[0:49:58.4] TJ: You got some fresh air.
[0:49:59.5] KM: I’ve got a fresh air. If you’re used to fresh air, you go into these really tightly sealed homes and you will get an allergy attack because it is old dust and chemicals where they clean their house in.
[0:50:13.1] TJ: There can be those issues.
[0:50:15.0] KM: Fresh air is nice and the people don’t seem to think it’s valuable because it is chillier in the winter and it is warmer in the summer.
[0:50:23.5] TJ: Well and it’s not as critical in Arkansas as it is say in Wisconsin. We’re about 50% heating and 50% cooling. In the extreme climates it is more important to have less infiltration for example when your temperatures are extreme. Here we’re about 50-50 and spring and fall are great.
[0:50:46.8] KM: Did any architects have an influence in your design? Well besides the ones you worked for, but we have some famous architects from Arkansas, Fay Jones.
[0:51:00.7] TJ: Well when I was in college Fay was Dean of the School of Arkansas.
[0:51:04.3] KM: No way.
[0:51:05.1] TJ: Yeah and I took a theory class with him in I believe fourth year and I wish I could do it again.
[0:51:13.3] KM: Now that you’re smarter?
[0:51:14.0] TJ: I would take that same class over, yeah.
[0:51:16.1] KM: Ain’t that the way?
[0:51:16.9] TJ: Now that I would pay more attention than I paid when I was 20 years old.
[0:51:21.7] KM: And then we got the – so he’s known for the Thorncrown Chapel in Fayetteville.
[0:51:27.6] TJ: Right.
[0:51:28.7] KM: And I’m sure he’s known for everything.
[0:51:29.9] TJ: Its body work, yeah. It’s amazing.
[0:51:32.9] KM: And then we have the Charles Thompson Homes.
[0:51:36.4] TJ: Right, the other architect that was influential to me was a fellow named Cyrus Sutherland. Cy was one of my professors in second year but Cy taught two of the ancient history courses. When I was going through we had to take four semesters of architectural history and Cy taught two of them and I just loved his style and that he was the guy when I was in 5th year when I took an elective called Restoration and Preservation.
A three hour elective and Cy taught that and so Cy really got me interested in historic architecture. So he was a major influence.
[0:52:13.7] KM: What did he do? Has he got some famous houses you said?
[0:52:16.5] TJ: No.
[0:52:17.8] KM: He’s just a great teacher?
[0:52:19.0] TJ: He has written some great articles and a book or two and passed away a few years ago but he left quite a legacy.
[0:52:31.0] KM: And then we had Frank Lloyd Wright which actually has a building. He didn’t do anything in Arkansas, one of the few states he didn’t do anything and I looked him up and I was like, “Wow he didn’t build anything in Arkansas” there’s like Arkansas and Michigan, the only two states almost that he didn’t build something but –
[0:52:46.7] TJ: But we got Fay. Fay is like a prodigy from the Frank Lloyd Wright legacy. He studied under Frank Lloyd Wright.
[0:52:53.4] KM: Oh really? I didn’t realize that.
[0:52:54.3] TJ: He has, yeah.
[0:52:56.2] KM: But Crystal Bridges brought in Frank Lloyd Wright house, it is up there right now.
[0:53:03.2] TJ: Correct and it’s really neat.
[0:53:05.0] KM: Have you been able to see it?
[0:53:05.8] TJ: Yes.
[0:53:06.4] KM: Is it permanent?
[0:53:07.2] TJ: Yes.
[0:53:08.0] KM: Oh I love it. I looked at it online and if anybody wants to see some great architecture go to the Crystal Bridges in Bentonville.
[0:53:15.1] TJ: And it was one of Frank Lloyd Wright’s. He had an era where he did what were called The Usonian House, which weren’t big and grand houses like you find outside of Chicago. They were for blue collar, smaller that houses only probably, I don’t recall exactly 1600 feet or so.
[0:53:36.1] KM: Oh is it? Yeah it looks small. Yeah it maybe 1200.
[0:53:39.7] TJ: Yet it’s got all of his design elements in. He felt like good design should be, everybody should have access to it.
[0:53:47.2] KM: He did the water falling house in Pennsylvania.
[0:53:52.0] TJ: Falling Water.
[0:53:52.9] KM: Falling Water house in Pennsylvania.
[0:53:54.6] TJ: Right, iconic.
[0:53:56.8] KM: Iconic. I want to live in a house like that and when I was reading about it, I read about his rival Phillip Johnson who was always dishening, they had two completely different styles and they were competing architects and one of the funny things that Phillip Johnson said was, “What do you think about…” some reporter was goading Phillip Johnson and said, “What do you think about famous Frank Lloyd Wright, would you call it Falling Water house?” and he said, “He just makes me want to pee”.
[0:54:31.5] TJ: I haven’t ever heard that quote.
[0:54:33.5] KM: I know, I loved it. I am glad I got to share that today. Look, Tim is over there cracking up. You have a period or a style you like?
[0:54:42.8] TJ: No.
[0:54:43.5] KM: You don’t?
[0:54:44.3] TJ: No.
[0:54:44.9] KM: I’m surprised. Well but not really, when I looked at your bodywork I’m glad you’re really not.
[0:54:49.1] TJ: That’s the thing, I feel more chameleon like, like I turn the color or the style I am working on.
[0:54:56.6] KM: That’s a true artist for you. So every project runs over budget right?
[0:55:02.1] TJ: No.
[0:55:02.9] KM: Does it?
[0:55:03.7] TJ: No.
[0:55:04.3] KM: Every project I’ve ever done has run over budget and I was going to ask you if there is an average.
[0:55:11.4] TJ: I don’t know if I could quote that. I mean when there’s a defined budget sometimes it can’t go over. There’s no more so the project adapts rather than the budget.
[0:55:22.3] KM: Oh, that would be nice because I just always say, “Sure do it. Yeah okay.” Yeah so how do people get in touch with you?
[0:55:31.5] TJ: Well I’m at my office 12 hours a day.
[0:55:35.3] KM: Well what’s the name and the name of the website is?
[0:55:38.8] TJ: www.jamesonarchitects.com
[0:55:41.6] KM: And Jameson is spelled interestingly.
[0:55:43.8] TJ: Like the Irish whiskey.
[0:55:45.9] KM: Oh, that’s exactly right.
[0:55:47.5] TJ: Jameson with an E.
[0:55:48.7] KM: With an E, do you drink that?
[0:55:51.1] TJ: Right, occasionally and my grandfather was John.
[0:55:55.2] KM: John Jameson, no.
[0:55:57.4] TJ: It’s not the John Jameson but.
[0:56:00.1] KM: So people can get in touch with you, Jameson Architects and I recommend everybody go to that website. It is so good, anything you want to tell our listeners before we head out? We’ve got two minutes left.
[0:56:12.3] TJ: Thank you for having me.
[0:56:14.1] KM: Thank you Tommy for coming on. You are awesome. For coming on, you get a cigar from the Humidor Room at Colonial Wine and Spirits on Malcolm Street in Little Rock, Arkansas and that is for birthing Jameson Architects and for caring about all of our historical homes and buildings in Arkansas and really outside of that.
[0:56:34.7] TB: All right. That was a great interview.
[0:56:36.7] KM: He was great. I learned a lot on that interview too. He’s a good guy. All right, if you’ve got a great entrepreneurial story you’d like to share with me, I’d love to hear from you. Send your brief bio and your contact information to email@example.com and someone will be in touch.
To our listeners, thank you for spending time with me and Tim and Jessie. If you think this program has been about you, you’re right. But it’s also been for me. Thank you for letting me fulfill my destiny. My hope is today that you’ve heard or learned something that’s been inspiring or enlightening and that it, whatever it is, will help you up your business, your independence, or your life.
I am Kerry McCoy and I’ll see you next time on Up in Your Business. Until then, be brave and keep it up.
[END OF INTERVIEW]
[0:57:25.4] TB: You’ve been listening to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. If you’d like to hear this program again, next week go to flagandbanner.com, click on the tab ‘Radio Show’ and there you’ll find podcasts with links to resources you heard discussed on today’s show.
Kerry’s goal, to help you live the American dream.