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Phil Kaplan and Leslie Singer of Two Jewish Guys

Listen to Learn:

  • About Phil's three groundbreaking lawsuits
  • Leslie's musical roots
  • What happened on Tuesday, April 19th
  • What size shoe Greta Garbo wore
  • What a "Tucker Telephone" is
  • Some Yiddish terminology

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Two Jewish Guys
With an estimated 1,500 Jews in Little Rock and 500 or so more living elsewhere throughout Arkansas, the percentage of Jews in Arkansas is less than 0.001%. It is unusual, then, that a couple of Jewish men (Leslie Singer and Phil Kaplan) would be the must-see comedy act during the Christmas season in Little Rock.
Singer grew up in the Bronx and on Long Island and moved to Little Rock in 1972, soon getting into advertising. Kaplan moved to Little Rock in 1968 to work as an attorney. They first teamed up on KUAR in 1995 as volunteer on-air fundraisers for KUAR radio station. At that time, the co-hosts were barely acquainted.
Singer recalls only that “we found ourselves doing the same fundraisers and with the same complaint: They were terribly boring. I said to [Kaplan] before we went on, let’s do it as a radio show, ‘The Two Jewish Guys on Public Radio.’ We’ll tell jokes and do shtick and stories about growing up Jewish. It really caught on.” Besides the Hanukkah special (which began in 2001), they suspended their fundraising shtick a couple of years ago.

Philip Kaplan was born in Winthrop, Massachusetts, on January 4, 1938, and grew up in Lynn, Massachusetts, with his parents and one brother. He studied government at Harvard University and graduated in 1959. He graduated from the University of Michigan with an LLB degree in 1962. He was licensed by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts but soon relocated to St. Louis, Missouri, to become field attorney for the National Labor Relations Board. He remained there until 1967.
Influenced in his youth by the Little Rock Central High School desegregation crisis, Kaplan moved to Little Rock in 1968 to practice law with McMath, Leatherman, Woods & Youngdahl. He left after a year to start Walker, Kaplan & Mays as a principal, staying until the end of 1977.
As a nationally known attorney focusing on civil and human rights, he helped inmates in the Arkansas prison system fight unjust treatment. He also argued cases against the teaching of creationism in Arkansas’s public schools and in support of a professor who lost his job for being a communist.
He was also lead counsel for the University of Arkansas (UA) in Fayetteville (Washington County) and its board of trustees in Richardson v. Sugg in 2006. UA head basketball coach Nolan Richardson had been terminated after the university decided that a comment he had made during a game was inappropriate. The decision was upheld in favor of UA, another victory for Kaplan and his firm.

Leslie Singer grew up in Long Beach, Long Island. He studied psychology at the New School for Social Research in Manhattan. After graduation, he played drums in several bands, recorded two singles and two albums for United Artists and Atlantic Records. He wrote his first album in the 60s, while visiting a commune in Arkansas.
After touring the Northeast promoting the album, he returned to Arkansas where he got a job with ad agency as a copywriter. Homesick for New York, he moved back only to discover very limited job opportunities. He worked for a short time at Bergdorf-Goodman selling women’s shoes – and sold a pair to the great Greta Garbo!
Singer again returned to Little Rock and rejoined the ad agency where he worked for the next thirteen years. He was hired away from them by Fairfield Communities, becoming the Vice President of Advertising.
He is a vintage toy enthusiast and has authored two books, ZAP! Ray Gun Classics and Do You Read Me? Vintage Communication Toys. He also collects authentic NASA used space equipment and vintage sci-fi pulp art.

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Up In Your Business is a Radio Show by FlagandBanner.com



[00:00:08] GM: Welcome to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy, a production of flagandbanner.com. Through storytelling and conversational interviews, this weekly radio show and podcast offers listeners an insider’s view into starting and running a business, the ups and downs of risk-taking, and the commonalities of successful people.

Connect with Kerry through her candid, often funny, and always informative weekly blog. There you’ll read, learn, and may comment about her life as a 21st century wife, mother, daughter, and entrepreneur.

And now it's time for Kerry to get all Up in Your Business.

[00:00:41] KM: Thank you son, Gray. Before we start, I want to let you know. If you miss any part of today’s show or want to hear it again or share it, there’s a way, and Gray will tell you how.

[00:00:50] GM: Listen to all UIYB past and present interviews by going to Up In Your Business with Kerry McCoy’s YouTube channel, the Democrat-Gazette’s digital newspaper, flagandbanner.com's website or subscribe to our podcast wherever you like to listen by searching Up In Your Business with Kerry McCoy. If you would like to receive timely email notifications of each week's upcoming guests, go to flagandbanner.com. Click radio show and join the email list. Back to you Kerry.

[00:00:50] KM: Thank you. If you’ve lived in Little Rock over the past 10 or so years, then chances are you’ve heard of my guests, the Two Jewish Guys, Phil Kaplan and Leslie Singer. Though the two men have a lot in common, they haven’t always known each other. Leslie Singer, an ad man and once VP for Fairfield Communities near Heber Springs, Arkansas, and Phil Kaplan, a civil rights attorney in private practice.

First meeting was as volunteers at an on-air fundraiser for KUAR radio station. They became fast friends. Finding out they both were born in the Northeast, both moved to Little Rock in the 1970s and both grew up in the Jewish culture. On-air, their commonalities and dry humor coupled with listener’s curiosity made for great storytelling in Jewish shtick. So much so that their popularity grew, and the Christmas charity event called the Two Jewish Guys Hanukkah Show, a Little Rock Christmas tradition was born.

But Leslie Singer and Phil Kaplan are more than their stage names suggest. Along with being the endearing Two Jewish Guys, they are a combination of savvy businessmen, musicians, activists, and more. It is a pleasure to welcome to the table the smart and fun-loving Two Jewish Guys, ad man Leslie Singer and Attorney Phil Kaplan.


[00:02:40] LS: Hello, Kerry.

[00:02:42] PK: Hey!

[00:02:42] KM: Wake up, Phil. I know I’m messing you up over there.

[00:02:45] PK: I’m quite happy to be here.

[00:02:47] KM: Talk about how happenstance first meeting at KUAR's fundraiser.

[00:02:52] PK: Well, there is a Yiddish word bashert. It’s fated. Bashert. Can you say bashert?

[00:02:57] KM: Bashert.

[00:02:58] PK: Bashert. Well, we were obviously fated. See, I had an office on what was then the Main St. Mall, and I’d go out and maybe get a little lunch. Leslie was an inventor and walker. He was walking.

[00:03:14] LS: I was always walking.

[00:03:15] PK: He was always walking, and he was walking on the Main St. Mall. I’d see him on the Main St. Mall, and he was there with Dawn Evans, a now retired architect who is not very funny actually. So I’m sorry I even mentioned his name.

[00:03:34] LS: He makes me laugh.

[00:03:35] PK: So I saw Leslie and this other fellow. We would chitchat occasionally. Then one day, I had been doing the fundraiser with somebody else whose name I now can't recall, and they inserted Leslie. I didn't think I can handle it by myself. So they inserted Leslie into this cramped little room, and it was magic. It was bashert.

[00:04:09] LS: Let me tell you a little more detail about it. So we’re in the room. It’s the fundraiser twice a year.

[00:04:17] KM: For KUAR?

[00:04:18] LS: For KUAR public radio. They do that all week. So every day of the week, they have several other hosts doing the same thing. Those guys basically are women. They come in, and they basically beg for money, and it was kind of boring.

[00:04:36] PK: It wasn't boring. Kind of. It was exceedingly.

[00:04:39] LS: It was kind of exceedingly boring, and we said, “Let’s not do that. Let's – Why don't we just do this? This was all on the spur of the moment. Why don't we just do a show?” Like you’re a little kid, “Hey! Let’s do a show.” So we said, “Okay. Let’s do a show about being Jewish, and we’ll just call it the Two Jewish Guys, and we will just ad lib our way through it, and we’ll talk about what it's like being Jewish in our Jewish backgrounds in a Jewish culture and Jewish jokes, blah, blah, blah.” We did that, and it was pretty big. I mean, people really like that. A lot of people called in, and the deal was if you had done this in New York, nobody would've cared. But it's not that common to have two guys talking about being Jewish or Judaism.

[00:05:20] PK: We’re aberrations.

[00:05:21] LS: Yeah. So it was lighthearted, and we were making fun of ourselves, and we are making fun of everything. So it clicked. So they asked us to come back and come back. At one point, they said, “How about you guys do a live show?” This was not at the Clinton Center yet. This was like one of the buildings at UALR.

[00:05:42] PK: It was at the extension center.

[00:05:45] LS: Yeah.

[00:05:45] PK: The extension center is where the people who need farming help or gardening help. That kind of thing. It was alien to me.

[00:05:55] LS: Well, it had nothing to do with that. It had to do with the fact that it was a little auditorium. So we went up there live, and we did this thing in front of like 75 people.

[00:06:03] PK: No. 10.

[00:06:07] LS: Really?

[00:06:07] PK: 10 people.

[00:06:08] LS: It seemed –

[00:06:09] PK: 10 people.

[00:06:09] LS: I guess it was a small room. It seemed more crowded to me. So we did it, and everybody loved it, and we had our mothers on. My mother was in the audience. I think your mother was in the audience.

[00:06:19] PK: No. My mother was by phone I think at that point.

[00:06:22] LS: Anyway, it still caught on, and it was a lot of fun. Finally, the station just said, “Let’s keep doing this.” Then they moved us over to the Clinton Center.

[00:06:31] PK: Didn’t we do it at the [inaudible 00:06:33] library?

[00:06:33] LS: Yeah. We did it there. But the next year was at the Darrel Library. We never got to Verizon. This has been a sad story.

[00:06:39] PK: It has. It has. I regret it.

[00:06:42] LS: Not even Robinson Auditorium.

[00:06:43] PK: In my regret. Well, we were at Robinson Auditorium.

[00:06:47] LS: We appeared with the Symphony as one of their holiday acts, the Two Jewish Guys of Little Rock Christmas tradition, like you say. So we’d go up, and we do a little shtick. That was written, of course.

[00:06:58] KM: That’s what I was going to say. Are you still at living or —

[00:07:01] LS: No. No. The Christmas show was not ad lib. The Hanukkah show rather was we had acts.

[00:07:06] PK: Scripted.

[00:07:06] LS: We scripted. We had music acts. We had our thing kind of worked out. It was not really scripted but loose like this.

[00:07:14] PK: Well, we would get together, and we said, “All right. We 60 minutes. How are we going to divide the 60 minutes?” So he’s better at math than I am. So he took a little piece of paper on a clipboard, and he said, “Okay. Two minutes introduction. Two minutes.”

[00:07:29] LS: That was very professional.

[00:07:30] PK: Yeah.

[00:07:31] LS: Very professional.

[00:07:31] PK: Then we said of the blessings on the candles, on the Hanukkah candles. Three minutes.

[00:07:36] LS: Today, that’s how the show started.

[00:07:38] PK: Whatever.

[00:07:39] LS: We did it for like five or six or seven years.

[00:07:41] PK: Yeah.

[00:07:41] LS: Then we decided we’re not going to do it anymore just because it, A, was a lot of work. B, we want to go out on top. But frankly, we are thinking, and this is an exclusive to you, Kerry. We’re thinking about reprising it. Like maybe we’ll do one more. I call it like the reunion tour, the one city Jewish guy reunion tour. I’m not promising –

[00:08:09] KM: let’s do it in the Dreamland Ballroom.

[00:08:11] LS: It’s got to be at the Clinton Center. How many people does the Dreamland Ball –

[00:08:15] KM: Same amount.

[00:08:16] LS: 300, 400 people?

[00:08:17] KM: 400.

[00:08:19] LS: Really? Wow!

[00:08:19] KM: And you could do a fundraiser for the Dreamland Ballroom.

[00:08:23] LS: That sounds like a quid pro quo.

[00:08:25] KM: Yes, it does.

[00:08:27] LS: Well, anyway we’ll talk about it.

[00:08:29] KM: It does, does it?

[00:08:30] LS: We don’t know that we’re going to do it.

[00:08:31] PK: It sounds like pressure.

[00:08:32] LS: Yeah.

[00:08:32] KM: It does.

[00:08:32] LS: We don’t know that we’re going to do it.

[00:08:32] PK: We don’t do well with pressure.

[00:08:34] LS: That’s how we do it, and I always say this. I always say Phil who really is a major force in this town. He won’t agree. Well, he’ll, agree quietly.

[00:08:44] PK: No, I don’t agree.

[00:08:46] LS: You don’t agree. But Phil has a great opinion, an outstanding lawyer. He’s done a lot of great work for the city, for the civil rights, everything. He’s a Harvard graduate and all this kind of thing. This is what he’s known for, being one of the Two Jewish guys.

[00:09:00] PK: I think that’s sad. I think it’s my crowning achievement.

[00:09:06] KM: Well, we’re going to talk about your crowning achievements, because they are many. But before we move on to each of you all’s crowning achievements, because you both had a great career before you became the Two Jewish Guys and the reason that that’s so popular is because it can go viral. You speak into – It’s humorous. I mean, people just love that. You make people laugh. They love you.

[00:09:31] LS: Not everybody loves us.

[00:09:31] KM: I never dated a guy that didn't make me laugh.

[00:09:34] PK: You’d never dated a guy that what?

[00:09:36] KM: Didn’t make me laugh.

[00:09:37] LS: Yeah. That’s important.

[00:09:38] KM: It’s very important.

[00:09:38] LS: But you know there is a lot of – There are some Jewish people in this town who don't like what we do. That's interesting, because they think we stereotype it too much.

[00:09:50] KM: Well, you said this, Leslie. Interesting enough, at least two thirds of our audience are not Jewish. You went on to say, “That really inspires me that they are interested in the religious and cultural part of Judaism. They enjoy a peek into another culture and they like it.”

[00:10:05] LS: Yeah. I agree with that. I do feel that way.

[00:10:05] KM: You said that.

[00:10:08] LS: I think – I mean, it’s not why we do it necessarily, but I think we have found a lot of people who really like it and like learning about what Judaism is and what it means, what it's kind of – Not at the highest religious levels. Culturally mostly. But there are some people in our community and our faith community that say, “You know, you guys are stereo – You’re feeding into the stereotypes,” because we would do make comments about buying wholesale and this kind of thing. But frankly, that's what Jewish humor is.

[00:10:40] PK: Self-deprecatory.

[00:10:41] LS: Self-deprecation.

[00:10:42] KM: You’re kind of ahead of your time. There's a popular Netflix always.

[00:10:46] LS: Always ahead of my time.

[00:10:47] PK: I’m so proud to be ahead of my time.

[00:10:50] KM: There’s a Netflix series now, I can't remember the name of it, of two Jewish guys that did really well a comedy act. You know what I’m talking about?

[00:10:57] LS: No.

[00:10:58] KM: No? I should’ve written it down.

[00:10:59] PK: Well, The Kominsky Method is clearly two guys.

[00:11:01] LS: Yeah.

[00:11:01] PK: Two Jewish guys.

[00:11:02] LS: They are there.

[00:11:03] PK: One is an actor and the other is an agent, and they are stereotypically Jewish too. You can – It's not hard to tel.

[00:11:13] KM: This is a great place to take a break. We’ll come back. We’ll continue our conversation with and learn more about the Two Jewish Guys, Leslie Singer and Phil Kaplan. We won't ask them if they're planning a comeback, because they've already found out they are kind of thinking about going back to the Clinton Center.

[00:11:29] LS: Possibly.

[00:11:30] KM: We will find out about their careers, because they both had great careers. We’ll be back after the break.

[00:11:37] ANNOUNCER: Friends of Dreamland are proud to sponsor Up In Your Business with Kerry McCoy. Dreamland Ballroom located on the third floor of the flagandbanner.com building in the historic Taborian Hall, is a nonprofit dedicated to bringing back the music, the history, and the party of the Dreamland Ballroom. Our annual fundraiser, Dancing Into Dreamland, will be a tournament of past champions to celebrate the 10th year.

Mark Friday, November 15th at 7:00 PM on your calendar. The night will include a dance competition where audience members text their votes for their favorite acts, a silent auction, free hors d'oeuvres, cash bar, and your opportunity to experience the magic and imagine the music of the legends that played on the Dreamland stage like Ella Fitzgerald, Ray Charles, Louis Armstrong, and many more.

Tickets available at dreamlandballroom.org for the 10th annual Dancing Into Dreamland. Be a part of the history of Dreamland.

[00:12:32] KM: You are listening to Up In Your Business with me, Kerry McCoy. I’m speaking today with the smart and witty Two Jewish Guys, Leslie Singer, ad man, and Phil Kaplan, civil rights attorney extraordinaire.

Before the break, we talked about how the two Jewish guys came to fruition, how it started. How long ago was it? 10 years ago?

[00:12:50] LS: More. Maybe.

[00:12:51] PK: Yes. 15 probably. At least 15 years.

[00:12:54] LS: Close to 20 years ago.

[00:12:56] KM: Their rise to stardom that they didn't know was going to happen that probably people in New York City would just love. Then –

[00:13:04] LS: Yet we still try to be just your average person.

[00:13:08] KM: I know.

[00:13:08] LS: We’re so successful at that. We’re average.

[00:13:13] PK: You can’t take too much more than that.

[00:13:16] KM: Phil, you grew up in Massachusetts, graduated from Harvard Law, and practiced as a field attorney for the National Labor Relations Board. Tell us about that journey.

[00:13:16] PK: Well, I went to Harvard College and went to the University of Michigan Law School, and then I worked for the National Labor Relations Board in St. Louis.

[00:13:31] KM: How’d you go there? How’d you go from Massachusetts to St. Louis?

[00:13:35] PK: It was something called a job.

[00:13:37] KM: Just following the job.

[00:13:38] PK: Following on a job. Yes. I thought I ought to use that law degree in something. My parents helped pay for. When you apply for a government position, you go where they tell you to go, and there was an opening in St. Louis. It turned out to be a really wonderful experience. We loved St. Louis.

[00:14:01] KM: You were married?

[00:14:02] PK: Yes. I was married halfway through law school, and I sent her to work. Well, needed something.

[00:14:10] LS: Yeah. Somebody’s got to.

[00:14:11] PK: So she was an elementary school teacher for a while. I mean, she's now a retired social worker. But at that point, we lived in Ann Arbor. Ann Arbor was a wonderful town. You could make a living there, but it’s a wonderful town in St. Louis. It was wonderful and wonderful experience also. I worked and learning a lot about employment and labor law.

[00:14:36] KM: But how’d you end up –

[00:14:36] PK: Then I got an offer to come to work for a firm here that was then known as McMath, Leatherman, Woods, and Youngdahl. Now the McMath Firm, Governor McMath and then judge Henry Woods and a man named Leland Leatherman and Jim Youngdahl who handled the employment work at that firm. I left after about 13, 14, 15 months, something like that and became associated with John Walker in what later became Walker, Kaplan, and Mace.

[00:14:36] KM: John Walker that just passed away?

[00:15:16] PK: Mm-hmm. Yes.

[00:15:18] KM: How did that affect you?

[00:15:19] PK: Well, we have not been close for several years, because that partnership ended almost 40 years ago. But nonetheless, we still had associations. We were on opposite sides of a couple of big cases. But I still respected John greatly, and his death is a significant loss for the state.

[00:15:51] KM: You were affected by the Central High [inaudible 00:15:51].

[00:15:54] PK: No. I was in college during the Central High business, and there was a man in Kirkland House where I was, who was from Little Rock. He took a considerable amount of ribbing as a result of the closure and sending troops and all of the terrible business. But before I joined John, there was a trial about busing in Little Rock before judge, the late Gordon Young. I represented a bunch of white parents who were proposing that busing be the alternative to desegregate schools.

At that point, the only desegregation was freedom of choice, and that resulted in almost no desegregation at all. I mean, it’s a long history and a long story.

[00:16:56] KM: You were on several big cases. I want to come back them, but let’s jump over to Leslie now.

So, Leslie, before you came to live in Arkansas, you were a successful drummer. Tell us about your career. It was successful. What was the name of your band?

[00:17:09] LS: Well, I was in several bands as I was growing up, starting in like maybe junior high school and through high school. But the two bands that sort of took me to places that were the most unusual was a group called The Unluv’d, which was a soul band. This is prior to the bigger band.

[00:17:32] KM: Unlov’d?

[00:17:33] LS: The Unlov’d, L-U-V’D.

[00:17:37] KM: Of course.

[00:17:37] LS: It was the fashion back there in the – This was a soul band, and it was a very good band. We really thought we were going to make it. We had a big manager who had – And a big musical attorney in New York named Warren Troupe, and we had a secret under the table partner, which is – Remember payola and all that kind of thing.

We had – Well, this wasn’t payola. But there was a guy in New York named Scott Muni who was a major radio DJ, and FM had just started. That's how old this is. Scott Muni was a secret partner with our manager, Paul Mineo. We had these two women who wrote songs for us. Both of whom had had hit records like with Wilson Pickett and other people. This was going to be it, and we just knew it, and it wasn’t, which has never happened.

We played a lot of great clubs. We actually opened once at a like a Ms. New York State contest. We opened for James Brown, if you can believe that. This was a good band. We played at the Peppermint Lounge and all that kind of good kind of cool stuff, but we never made it big. But it was almost beside the point, because it's the late ‘60s. You’re in New York. You're in the rock and roll business. It wasn't going to get much better than that for kids our age.

I Left that band. I was sort of recruited to another band called The Unspoken Word, which went to school up at Brown University in Rhode Island School of Design up there where you were. They were like more of a – They had a woman lead singer. Her name was Dede, and they were more like psych rock. Psych like not psychedelic but quietly, ethereal. They were really good.

So we got a great recording contract with them with ATCO, which is in Atlantic Records. We did this first album, which was a concept album called Tuesday, April 19th.

[00:19:40] KM: People don’t know what concept album means.

[00:19:42] LS: Well concept album means that there was like a story behind it. It wasn’t just 14 songs or something. There was more to it. There was a story. Frankly, there really wasn't. We were trying to make more out of it than it really was.

[00:19:53] KM: What was the name of the album?

[00:19:54] LS: It was called Tuesday, April 19th, which was meant to be just a day in the life of this person. I never really understood.

[00:20:01] KM: Because it's a story.

[00:20:03] LS: Because it’s a story. Now, it doesn't really read like a story of anybody's day. It frankly doesn't. But this was the ‘60s, man. You could just say anything and do anything.

[00:20:11] KM: Bob Dylan was writing all these ballads.

[00:20:14] LS: Yeah. And these long things. Then we had – So then that was well received. But then we -- That wasn't really us. We thought –

[00:20:23] PK: Received by whom?

[00:20:24] LS: By local. It was on the radio, and it got good reviews by different music –

[00:20:30] PK: My mother would say, “I never heard of it.”

[00:20:32] LS: Never heard. Well, most people never heard of it. Those who did liked it.

[00:20:35] KM: How do you say never heard of it in Yiddish?

[00:20:38] LS: How do you say that?

[00:20:40] PK: [inaudible 00:20:40].

[00:20:41] LS: Yeah. So we did it. It was a fancy. I mean, it had a big orchestra and everything, because we said this might be the only album we do. Let's make it significant.

[00:20:51] PK: Strangers.

[00:20:51] LS: But it really wasn't us.

[00:20:53] PK: Stranger again.

[00:20:53] LS: Yeah. Big orchestra, strange and everything. Yeah.

[00:20:56] PK: Brass.

00:20:57] LS: The whole – Every instrument, Phil. Literally every instrument, timpani, everything.

[00:21:02] PK: Timpani?

[00:21:03] LS: Timpani even. And the –

[00:21:04] KM: Did you have the low triangle?

[00:21:05] LS: We had the triangles. We had cymbals. We had that tuba.

[00:21:09] PK: Did you have a gong?

[00:21:09] LS: We had a oboe. We had a gong.

[00:21:11] KM: No, you did not.

[00:21:13] LS: I don’t think we had a gong. We could have had a gong if there was gong part. Anyway, we did that. So it didn’t really – But really we were really not that kind of a band. We were a really kind of a hard-driving blues band. So our next album just simply called The Unspoken Word was that.

[00:21:33] KM: It did better?

[00:21:33] LS: It did better. A matter fact, it got reviewed in Rolling Stone Magazine and got a great review in Rolling Stone Magazine. That mean they really liked it. So we toured around with that but still never really made it. I've tried to create this. I haven't really tried. I thought about trying to create this buzz about this album, which is available, by the way, like on eBay and Spot. You can hear it in different places.

[00:22:00] KM: Tuesday, April –

[00:22:01] LS: Tuesday, April 19th, which was –

[00:22:02] KM: By The Unspoken Word.

[00:22:03] LS: By The Unspoken Word, which was just a random date that I actually came up with just off the top of my head. But what happened was Tuesday, April 19th several years later was the Waco massacre. Remember when Waco —

[00:22:16] PK: David Koresh. Was that David Koresh?

[00:22:17] LS: David Koresh and that communal group got – Then a couple years later was the Oklahoma City bombing, which was –

[00:22:25] KM: I cannot believe those were on the same two days.

[00:22:27] LS: Well, I think they were related to each other. I think the Oklahoma City bombing was in as a result of the Waco thing. In other words, somebody was saying, “I’m going to –”

[00:22:37] KM: Celebrating.

[00:22:38] LS: Yeah, celebrating. So I've tried to create this – I fantasized about creating a artificial buzz about how if you listen to The Unspoken Word Tuesday, April 19th album, there's all these hints at some big stuff was coming down.

[00:22:54] PK: Would that be fake buzz?

[00:22:56] LS: That’s fake buzz we call that. But it wasn’t. I mean, it’s because you can project anything into anything.

[00:23:03] KM: Phil said it’s because you have to play the album backwards.

[00:23:05] LS: The album backwards. Yeah. You don’t have to. But literally, these two albums are still – They’re on – I think you can get them on Amazon or you – I know somebody rerelease them in CD.

[00:23:14] KM: I’m going to go listen.

[00:23:16] LS: Yeah. They’re pretty good. They hold up. They held – One is a very –

[00:23:18] KM: Do you miss playing the drums?

[00:23:20] LS: Yes, a little.

[00:23:21] KM: You don’t play at all anymore?

[00:23:23] LS: Not much. Every once in a while, I sit in but I –

[00:23:25] KM: How’s your hearing?

[00:23:26] LS: I don't have any hearing problems, but it I've lost some of my drumming chops. You know what I mean?

[00:23:31] KM: Mm-hmm.

[00:23:31] LS: It’s like not speaking the language. If you don't speak it for a long time, you sort of lose it. But I think I could get it back. But I don't really want to. I’m into other things these days. Don't ask me what I’m –

[00:23:42] PK: Eating. He’s – You can tell by looking at him. I mean, walking down the street, he’s got a rhythm.

[00:23:47] LS: Yeah. I got –

[00:23:48] KM: He's got swagger?

[00:23:49] PK: Because his hands are going in a different way than his feet, and his hand is going one way, and his hand is going another way.

[00:23:55] LS: You call that swagger? I don’t think that’s –

[00:23:56] PK: That’s what a drummer has to do. A drummer has to have the ability to have one rhythm going in one hand and different on the other hand and something on his foot.

[00:24:05] LS: They have names for that. It’s called base drum independence like your right foot has to – But you have to practice. It’s not like you can just do it. I mean, you have to practice like [inaudible 00:24:15]. So anyway, all in all a very, very fun musical career, which basically determined the whole pathway of my life because the band got me to Arkansas. The band got me –

[00:24:28] KM: How did you do that?

[00:24:29] LS: Well, we were getting ready to write the second album, and a friend of mine in New York had met a communal group that was living in Arkansas.

[00:24:40] KM: Very popular at the time.

[00:24:41] LS: Yes. He said, “Why don’t you guys come down to Arkansas and live with us for a month or so and write your album down there?” That just sounded like the coolest thing ever. So we did, and we came down, and we wrote the album, and then we went back to New York.

[00:25:00] KM: So you went back to New York?

[00:25:01] LS: I went back to New York but then came back down to Arkansas, because I love –

[00:25:04] KM: Because you fell in love or something?

[00:25:05] LS: Because I liked it here.

[00:25:06] KM: You just liked it here.

[00:25:07] LS: I just –

[00:25:07] KM: You said when you went back to New York you sold shoes.

[00:25:09] LS: Yes. It’s great. So here I am, Mr. big shot musician, at the top of my musical career. I go back to New York. I had already not only been a musician, but I had gone into advertising. I sort of got hired in an ad agency. When I left this communal group after about three years, I got a job with an ad agency.

The woman I was married to at the time, she was from New York also, and we thought we missed it. So we moved back to New York. Well, I couldn't get a job in New York in advertising. No way, because here I am from Little Rock, and it was the recession. The only job I could get was selling women's shoes in Bergdorf Goodman, which is a high-end –

[00:25:49] PK: That high-end.

[00:25:50] LS: High-end 5th Avenue.

[00:25:51] PK: High-end.

[00:25:53] LS: But I was a terrible shoes salesman. I was terrible. But I did sell shoes to Greta Garbo. That's the highlight of my –

[00:25:58] PK: No.

[00:25:59] LS: Yeah. Absolutely. Size 9 Papagallo flat. I’ll never forget it.

[00:26:02] PK: I never knew of that, Leslie. You didn’t tell me.

[00:26:05] LS: You don’t know everything, Phil. You don’t know everything. I got secrets.

[00:26:08] PK: Well, now everybody else knows.

[00:26:10] LS: Everybody knows. So I stayed there nine months, and I wrote to my boss here in Little Rock. I said, “Could I have my job back?” He said, “Absolutely. Come on back. I'll give you a raise. We’ll give you this. We’ll give you that.” So l came back and I've been here now like 45 years. I like – I love it here.

[00:26:28] KM: Top that, Phil Kaplan.

[00:26:29] LS: Yeah, Phil Kaplan.

[00:26:30] PK: I can’t.

[00:26:30] LS: Would you sell shoes to Mr. Harvard?

[00:26:32] PK: I can’t.

[00:26:33] KM: Mr. Harvard University.

[00:26:34] LS: You went to Harvard College.

[00:26:34] PK: But I will say this.

[00:26:35] KM: College.

[00:26:36] PK: My father was a kosher butcher, so I worked in the butcher shop. I never, never cut a piece of meat. My brother –

[00:26:43] KM: I was going to say you cut your fingers.

[00:26:44] LS: What did you do?

[00:26:45] PK: I cleaned. I was the cleaner. It had to be clean, right, the butcher shop?

[00:26:51] LS: Sure.

[00:26:51] KM: Charming.

[00:26:52] PK: So then they made Kosher delicacies like knishes and Kreplach and Kishke. You know Kishke?

[00:26:59] KM: No.

[00:27:00] PK: You don’t know Kishke?

[00:27:01] KM: Kishka. Sausage?

[00:27:02] PK: Kishke is called – In English, it’s called stuffed derma.

[00:27:07] KM: That's skin, derma?

[00:27:08] LS: Yeah.

[00:27:08] PK: Well, it’s intestine.

[00:27:10] KM: It’s a sausage.

[00:27:11] PK: Yes. It’s like a sausage. Yes.

[00:27:14] LS: Only worse.

[00:27:15] PK: Yes.

[00:27:17] KM: You still eat that?

[00:27:17] PK: Do you eat it? Yeah. You eat it.

[00:27:19] KM: Do you still eat that?

[00:27:20] PK: Yeah.

[00:27:20] KM: Do you still eat it?

[00:27:20] PK: Yeah. You cook it and you eat it, and it’s about the worse thing you can have for a heart condition. It is – And I think maybe – I had a stent put in about a year ago. I think it caught up.

[00:27:37] LS: From the Kishke?

[00:27:39] PK: From the Kishke. Yeah.

[00:27:39] LS: It’s called the Kishke stent.

[00:27:40] PK: But knishes. You know knishes? You don’t even know knishes.

[00:27:43] KM: I don’t.

[00:27:44] PK: You see. This is –

[00:27:45] KM: Sad.

[00:27:45] PK: We have to educate you.

[00:27:47] LS: Well, this is what the Two Jewish Guys and the Christmas show or the Hanukkah show would talk about. We talk about knishes and the foods we ate. You know what? I used to eat – Well, maybe this is – Tell me if this is a certain thing. Boiled chicken's feet. Do you ever eat that?

[00:28:01] KM: No. But I know –

[00:28:03] LS: You know people that do?

[00:28:03] KM: Yeah. That’s a southern thing I think.

[00:28:05] LS: Yeah.

[00:28:06] KM: Or an Asian thing. I think they eat that a lot in Asia.

[00:28:08] PK: Yeah.

[00:28:08] LS: Well, that was one of the things.

[00:28:11] KM: How about this one? Bissell.

[00:28:12] LS: Bissell? That means a little.

[00:28:15] KM: You could eat a little.

[00:28:17] LS: Little Kishke.

[00:28:17] KM: You could eat a Bissell. A Bissell Kishke.

[00:28:19] PK: Bissell Kishke. A Bissell Kishke is about all that you want to eat.

[00:28:21] KM: I speak Yiddish now.

[00:28:22] LS: You speak Yiddish really. Excellent.

[00:28:24] PK: You don’t want to take too much more.

[00:28:26] KM: All right. Let’s take a break. You got something else to say?

[00:28:29] PK: No.

[00:28:29] KM: Come on. Come on. Come on.

[00:28:30] LS: Come on. Bring it, Phil. Tell them about your cross-dressing thing.

[00:28:36] PK: I don’t want to let too many people know about that.

[00:28:39] LS: Okay. We’ll take a break now.

[00:28:41] KM: No. Tell me.

[00:28:42] LS: We won’t.

[00:28:43] KM: No, we won’t. Tell me.

[00:28:45] PK: Cross-dressing?

[00:28:46] KM: Yeah.

[00:28:46] PK: No. That’s Leslie.

[00:28:50] LS: That’s not Leslie. It’s a joke.

[00:28:51] PK: It’s not Leslie. That’s just –

[00:28:52] LS: It’s a little joke. It’s a little joke.

[00:28:53] PK: That’s just a joke.

[00:28:54] LS: It’s a joke.

[00:28:54] KM: It’s a Bissell joke.

[00:28:54] LS: That’s a Bissell joke. Yeah.

[00:28:58] KM: All right. We’re going to take a break. When we come back, we’ll continue our conversation with the retired but still very interesting and funny KUAR’s Two Jewish Guys, Leslie Singer and Phil Kaplan.

[00:29:08] AM: Arkansas Flag and Banner is proud to underwrite Up In Your Business with Kerry McCoy. McCoy began this broadcast with the intention of offering a mentoring platform for those with an entrepreneurial spirit. Through candid conversations and interesting interviews with business and community-minded Arkansans, listeners gained insight into starting and running a business, the ups and downs of risk-taking, and the commonalities of successful people.

Kerry McCoy, founder and president of Arkansas Flag and Banner, believes in paying knowledge and experience forward and developed this radio show as a means of doing so. The biographies, life experiences, and wisdom of her guests would likely go unheard, if not for this venue. Rarely do people open up for an hour to an audience about their life mistakes, triumphs, and pitfalls. This unique radio show allows the listener intimate access into the stories of prominent leaders in our states.

I’m Adrienne McNally, manager of the Arkansas Flag and Banner showroom and gift shop, located on the first floor of the historic Taborian Hall on the corner of 9th and State Streets in downtown Little Rock Arkansas. In business for 43 years, we offer an old-school shopping experience with front door parking, clerks to help you in department store variety. Open Monday through Friday, 8:00 to 5:30 and Saturday, 10:00 to 4:00.


[00:30:28] KM: You’re listening to Up In Your Business with me, Kerry McCoy. We’re just laughing it up back here. I'm speaking today with the smart, witty Two Jewish Guys, Leslie Singer, ad man, and Phil Kaplan, civil rights attorney.

So before the break, we talked about Phil cross-dressing. Then we talked about Leslie cross-dressing. Then we found out that they really don't cross-dress.

[00:30:48] LS: Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[00:30:49] KM: Not in public. Not in public.

[00:30:51] LS: No. In the privacy of one’s home.

[00:30:53] KM: There you go.

[00:30:53] LS: And there's nothing wrong with that. I don’t want to besmirch cross-dressers.

[00:30:57] KM: That’s right. You’re right. You’re right. So let’s go back to Phil. You came to Little Rock. You had some huge cases.

[00:31:06] PK: Well. But the first one was I got a call from Judge J. Smith Henley. He was one of – At that time, only two federal judges in Little Rock. He had two prior prison cases, one involving the strap and one involving the Tucker telephone. Tucker telephone, do you know what that was?

[00:31:30] KM: Uh-uh.

[00:31:30] LS: Yeah, I do.

[00:31:32] PK: Well, that was a method of punishment, more torture of – It involved –

[00:31:40] KM: The Tucker telephone?

[00:31:41] PK: Attaching –

[00:31:41] LS: Electrode.

[00:31:42] PK: Electrodes to one's genitalia.

[00:31:44] KM: No.

[00:31:46] PK: Well, yes. That’s right. That’s what they –

[00:31:50] KM: That’s real story.

[00:31:52] PK: That is a true story.

[00:31:53] KM: What year was this?

[00:31:54] PK: Well, it was 1964 or ’65.

[00:31:57] KM: We’ve come a long way, baby.

[00:31:59] LS: Maybe.

[00:31:59] PK: So in any rate – But he had lots of prisoner petitions stacked up, and he wanted to do something about it. So he called me, and he called Jack Holt Jr. Jack Holt Jr. was a pretty well- known criminal defense lawyer. Jack then became the Chief Justice of the Arkansas Supreme Court. So in any rate, he called us. He said he wanted somebody with some civil rights experience, and he wanted somebody who was a real lawyer.

Jack was the real lawyer who understood that these prisoners were of particular group that he said I might not be familiar with in any rate. So we embarked on a trial. We went down to the prison. At that time, the Arkansas legislature appropriated zero dollars for the Arkansas penitentiary system. It was all self-supporting. There were no prison guards that carry guns. Only inmates carried guns. You seem surprised.

[00:33:13] KM: I am surprised.

[00:33:15] LS: What do you mean inmates? You mean inmates were acting as guards?

[00:33:18] PK: They manned the guard towers.

[00:33:20] LS: The inmates?

[00:33:20] PK: Yeah, and they had rifles and –

[00:33:22] KM: Why didn’t they just shoot everybody and leave?

[00:33:25] PK: Well, they would shoot every – If you tried to leave, they would shoot you. You’re not supposed to leave. So that was their directive.

[00:33:33] KM: Those were some good inmates that they didn’t just get up and leave.

[00:33:36] PK: I mean, it was a dark and dreadful place. After a couple of trials or a couple of several sessions actually, most of the sessions were about a week long when we would call these prisoners up from the Cummins Prison Farm, and the judge declared the whole prison system unconstitutional. So Jack and I then in follow-up litigation, we spent more time in prison than most inmates. Most inmates were there three or four years. Jack and I were there 10 years or so.

[00:34:14] KM: Interviewing people?

[00:34:15] PK: Yeah. Well, we interviewed people, and we finally were able to get some young lawyers, law students to help us with the interviewing.

[00:34:25] KM: So it took 10 years?

[00:34:28] PK: I’ll tell you. The case never really got settled until Bill Clinton became the Atty. Gen. He said we’ve got to put an end to this terrible litigation. We’re going to settle, and he did.

[00:34:45] KM: Was it a good outcome? I guess.

[00:34:47] PK: It was a good outcome, except that prisons are always – Well, they are I guess the most unmanageable of societal institutions. They’re just not prone to the same kind of systemic solutions that –

[00:35:09] KM: They’re not sexy to work on. I mean, who wants to work on those? Who wants to go, “Okay. I’m working on solving the prison system.”? But they need to.

[00:35:16] PK: There are people who are hard at work at it, but it requires a very special dedicated kind of person. At any rate, one of the funny things was that although Dale Bumpers was a great governor, he hired to run the prisons. He hired a couple of people from Texas, which had a prison system worse than ours, if that's possible.

The prison systems in the South that had prison farms. Parchment in Louisiana, Mississippi had a prison farm system. They were terrible, these people who came up from Texas. They were awful, but Clinton put an end to that and decided he would prepare a settlement and –
[00:36:07] KM: He did.

[00:36:07] PK: We settled it.

[00:36:08] KM: You had two other ones. You argued against the teaching of creation in Arkansas public schools. I mean, both of those are big policy changers. Then you had another one that I think our listeners might be interested in. It's the one where you’re the lead counsel for the University of Arkansas in Fayetteville and the Board of Trustees in a lawsuit, Nolan Richardson versus Sugg in 2006.

[00:36:29] PK: Right. Well, that was when the University fired Nolan Richardson, who was the head basketball coach at the time.

[00:36:37] KM: And beloved by the State of Arkansas.

[00:36:39] PK: Well –

[00:36:40] KM: Except for that time, people kind of –

[00:36:41] PK: Except by that time he was losing. So you’re always loved when you're a winner and so much loved when you’re a loser.

[00:36:48] KM: So he said some disparaging remark, didn’t he?

[00:36:51] PK: He did.

[00:36:52] KM: What was it? Or can you repeat it? I don’t even remember.

[00:36:53] PK: Well, he – It had to do with the recruiting. Now, he’s back in the good graces and named the court after him.

[00:37:03] KM: I know.

[00:37:05] PK: John Walker, the late John Walker, represented Nolan, and I represented the university.

[00:37:13] KM: You won.

[00:37:14] PK: We won.

[00:37:14] KM: Yeah. I know.

[00:37:15] LS: You always win.

[00:37:17] PK: I don’t always win.

[00:37:18] LS: You win all the time.

[00:37:18] PK: If a lawyer tells you that they win all their cases, he either doesn't handle any cases or he’s lying, because you can't win every case. It’s just not possible. But I did win that case, and we won the creation science case too.

[00:37:35] LS: You win the big cases or the big ones.

[00:37:37] KM: The policy changers. I mean, those are some big policy changes.

[00:37:41] LS: This is what life –

[00:37:42] KM: What was you all’s family life like? Were they the same or we’re you all’s family growing up similar?

[00:37:48] LS: I think somewhat similar.

[00:37:51] PK: Yeah. Growing up you mean?

[00:37:52] KM: Mm-hmm.

[00:37:53] PK: I had a brother who’s deceased now, my late brother. My parents were immigrants. Both of them came right after the 1st World War, and their fathers, both my mother's father and my father's father, came right before the war. Then the war broke out, and they were unable to leave. They came from -- My father from – It is now Lithuania but was then probably Poland or Russia. The lines change. My mother, she had family in Latvia and Russia.

[00:38:27] KM: What language did they speak in the house?

[00:38:29] PK: Well, they quickly spoke English, but they spoke Yiddish in the house. My father's parents spoke Yiddish their whole life. My grandmother, my mother's mother, had a little store where she sold women's hosiery and corsets and other women's undergarments. So she spoke English. She had to –

[00:38:53] KM: What’s the word for undergarments?

[00:38:55] PK: I have no idea.

[00:38:55] KM: Yes, you do. I have it written here.

[00:38:56] LS: Yes, you do.

[00:38:56] KM: I have it written here somewhere. Come on.

[00:39:01] PK: Let me see.

[00:39:02] LS: Unter spoken

[00:39:03] PK: Unter kleidung.

[00:39:05] KM: Here. Unterzakhn, underthings. Pull up your britches. Your unterzakhn are showing.

[00:39:15] LS: Yeah. They’re showing.

[00:39:17] KM: Is that – Am I saying it right?

[00:39:18] LS: Close.

[00:39:19] PK: Well, probably.

[00:39:20] LS: Probably.

[00:39:21] KM: It’s what it looks like.

[00:39:22] LS: Because it’s not a word that I commonly use.

[00:39:25] KM: I’m surprised you don’t – Your grandmother didn’t use it all the time.

[00:39:28] LS: We’re going back to that whole cross-dressing thing again with the corsets.

[00:39:29] PK: Well, my father used to say – My father used to say –

[00:39:31] KM: You said don’t – I see. You’re right.

[00:39:33] LS: Is gatkes. Gatkes.

[00:39:35] KM: What’s that one?

[00:39:36] PK: I think gatkes were underwear. Yeah.

[00:39:40] LS: Well, let me tell you about – Let me just interject, because I have a story that relates to that, and you’re talking about – First of all, you were talking about St. Louis, and then you were talking about where your parents came from. My father was born in St. Louis and moved to Poland.

[00:39:58] KM: That’s backwards.

[00:39:59] LS: How Polish is that? It was actually brilliant. His parents who were from Poland came to this country. His mother gave birth to him in this – They came here illegally, gave birth to him in this country. So now, he’s a citizen. Took him back to Poland where he was raised till he was about 18 years old, and then he was allowed to bring them back as a citizen.

[00:40:22] KM: That was brilliant.

[00:40:23] LS: My parents, they were – They’d done, my grandparents on my dad’s side were in the tailor business. Their name wasn’t Singer. Their name was Platz, P-L-A-T-Z, which is a pretty common Polish name but not a very nice sounding American name. But everywhere in their store was Singer sewing machine equipment. The calendar said Singer, and the equipment said Singer, and this said Singer. So I just said this has got to be a great American name. We’re going to change our name to Singer. So I’m actually named after the sewing machine.

[00:40:59] KM: What was their original name? Did you –

[00:41:00] LS: Platz.

[00:41:01] KM: Platz?

[00:41:02] LS: P-L-A-T-Z, Platz.

[00:41:04] PK: Platz is a Yiddish word too. It means –

[00:41:05] LS: It means fall down.

[00:41:06] PK: Well, to die.

[00:41:08] LS: He Platz.

[00:41:10] PK: [inaudible 00:41:10]. You could die from this.

[00:41:12] LS: Well, yeah. You could die. For me, I could Platz. Then my other side of the family came from Russia, Ukraine. Actually now, they were in the hand laundry business. So we came from a pretty modest stock.
[00:41:26] KM: Hardworking.

[00:41:28] LS: My father was a house painter, and my mother just –

[00:41:32] KM: Nobody in your family played drums or music?

[00:41:35] LS: Nobody.

[00:41:35] KM: You just got it? You just got it?

[00:41:36] LS: No one. I just got – Well, I’ll tell you the story real quickly. I’ve told this story before, because I think it’s fascinating. I can trace my life up to this very minute, sitting here with you from the day just prior to my fifth birthday in Cleveland, Ohio where we lived for a couple years going to a department store with my mom and seeing a toy set of drums up on a shelf and saying, “Oh! I want that.”

The next thing a couple weeks later, a big old box comes to the apartment and says, “Do not open until November 19th,” which is my birthday. Inside was this little toy set of drums. So, of course, I love them and I would just knock around on them. I didn’t know how to really play them, but I love them.

Comes the third – Now, we’re in New York on Long Island. Comes the third grade. Who wants be in the band? I raise my hand. I say, “Well, I know how to play the drums,” which I –
So I’ll be in the band. Well, like I mentioned earlier, playing the drums took – Has taken me throughout my whole life. It got me through. I earn my living through college that way. I made all my friends that way. I met all my wives that way literally and moved to Arkansas because of that.

Here I am, 76 years later or 70 years because it was my fifth birthday because of that one day, coming across a drum set.

[00:43:04] KM: You never know.

[00:43:05] LS: No. I could have not gone with my mother that day, and I might still be selling shoes in Bergdorf Goodman.

[00:43:12] KM: You’re also an author. You have a really weird hobby list.

[00:43:16] LS: I’m not –

[00:43:18] KM: In fact, I brought the book.

[00:43:17] LS: I am an author in the sense that I have two books published, but I don't consider myself an author, although I am a writer in the sense of being a copyright.

[00:43:25] KM: That is true. You are a copyright.

[00:43:27] LS: I’m a copy writer. Advertising.

[00:43:27] KM: That’s what you did as an ad man.

[00:43:29] LS: Right.

[00:43:29] KM: Did you ever write a book, Phil? You should.

[00:43:32] PK: Never.

[00:43:31] KM: You should.

[00:43:33] PK: My kids and my wife want me to write a book about my life.

[00:43:37] KM: You should.

[00:43:40] PK: I’m hesitant to do it. For one thing –

[00:43:42] KM: You could just dictate it.

[00:43:43] PK: Well, I’m not a great writer.

[00:43:45] KM: So dictate it.

[00:43:45] PK: I’d have to have somebody – Well, maybe I will one day.

[00:43:49] LS: Well, my book is mostly pictures.

[00:43:50] KM: Look.

[00:43:52] LS: Yeah. Zap!

[00:43:52] PK: Zap!

[00:43:52] KM: Now, I bought this from you.

[00:43:54] LS: You did?

[00:43:55] KM: 10 years ago.

[00:43:55] LS: You’re the person.

[00:43:59] KM: When you had a show. Tell everybody what is the book of. Nobody knows what we’re talking about.

[00:44:03] LS: As kid, I was a space cadet. I was really into space cadets and all that kind of a thing and had really a lot of ray guns. So I decided to collect vintage toy, ray guns. So I did.

[00:44:18] KM: It was before the Internet. How did you find out all the stuff about them? How did you do all this research?

[00:44:22] LS: I used to go to antique shows all over the country. It was prior to the Internet. That’s right.

[00:44:26] KM: That’s what I told somebody when you were coming on. I showed him this book. I said, “This doesn't look like a lot to you now, because you’ve got the Internet. But before you had the Internet –”

[00:44:34] LS: You had to go. I found every one of those guns just like in an antique – I used to travel around the country, looking for space toys. That was a hobby of mine. My second book, which just came out last year, is called Do You Read Me? That one’s called Zap! The Do You Read Me? is a similar stylebook, mostly photographs. Not really.

[00:44:53] KM: It’s a coffee table book.

[00:44:54] LS: It’s a – Yeah. It's about vintage communication toys like walkie-talkies, old – That didn't work. Just had string or wire. Nothing that really broadcast. But basically, I love the look of it. It’s very kind of deco and retro futuristic. It's all about imagination, and that's kind of where my deal is from.

[00:45:17] KM: We’ve got a few minutes left. Let's do a Yiddish word vocabulary test.

[00:45:23] LS: Yeah. Let's do that.

[00:45:25] KM: Dreml.

[00:45:27] PK: Dreml is a little tool that you –

[00:45:32] KM: These are bonus rounds, because they're hard. These are obscure words.

[00:45:37] LS: Dreml.

[00:45:38] KM: It’s a nap.

[00:45:40] LS: A nap? Have you ever heard of a nap called a dreml?

[00:45:41] PK: Yes. It just means – It’s a word for sleeping.

[00:45:46] LS: [inaudible 00:45:46].

[00:45:48] PK: [inaudible 00:45:48] is the actual word.

[00:45:50] LS: [inaudible 00:45:50].

[00:45:51] PK: But I think dreml means –

[00:45:52] LS: That’s what my grandma say to me, who also spoke Yiddish primarily and who I used to understand. I used to listen to Yiddish comedy with her on the radio and could understand. She was like –

[00:46:02] PK: So if I said to my father or to my mother there’s nothing to do, they would say, “[inaudible 00:46:09]. Go hit your head against the wall.”

[00:46:14] LS: That’s good. That’s good. Give us another one.

[00:46:17] KM: All right. [inaudible 00:46:19].

[00:46:20] PK: No. You can’t say it, because I have no idea what that is.

[00:46:23] LS: [inaudible 00:46:23]?

[00:46:24] KM: It means work. [inaudible 00:46:26].

[00:46:26] PK: Arbet is work.

[00:46:28] KM: Just one hour of this [inaudible 00:46:30] and I get to head home.

[00:46:32 LS: It’s probably like BS or something like that.

[00:46:36] PK: No. I don’t know. I have never heard that.

[00:46:36] KM: So this means work?

[crosstalk 00:46:39]

[00:46:40] KM: Off the Internet, you find one off that list.

[00:46:42] LS: This is fake news on the Internet.

[00:46:44] GM: From across the table, that kind of looks like something that sounds like malarkey maybe.

[00:46:47] KM: It does sound like malarkey, but it’s not really.

[00:46:49] GM: Yeah. But probably not. No.

[00:46:50] KM: But malarkey I think comes from that.

[00:46:53] GM: Let’s see. Mishpucha?

[00:46:55] LS: Yeah. Mishpucha.

[00:46:55] PK: Mishpucha is family.

[00:46:57] LS: That’s a popular one.

[00:46:58] GM: Mensch. I thought everybody knows.

[00:46:59] LS: Mensch is a big word. A man or a woman of great honor.

[00:47:03] GM: I’m just reading the ones that I recognize. Meshuggeneh.

[00:47:05] LS: Yeah. Crazy.

[00:47:05] PK: Crazy.

[00:47:07] KM: But that’s what you all are, meshuggeneh. There’s your gift. We’re about to leave.

[00:47:10] LS: Thank you.

[00:47:11] KM: [inaudible 00:47:11].

[00:47:11] PK: My goodness.

[00:47:13] KM: Meshuggeneh Two Jewish Guys.

[00:47:14] LS: That’s very nice.

[00:47:15] PK: Look at that.

[00:47:16] KM: Phil, you get one too.

[00:47:17] PK: Wow!

[00:47:18] KM: It’s a desk set.

[00:47:19] LS: It does said Excelsior.

[00:47:21] PK: I’ll out this on my desk.

[00:47:21] KM: What’s’ that blue one I wonder.

[00:47:23] LS: This one?

[00:47:23] KM: What’s that one?

[00:47:24] PK: It says Excelsior.

[00:47:24] GM: The flag of New York, which –

[00:47:25] KM: Flag of New York.

[00:47:27] GM: Which really only meant to be for one of you I think.

[00:47:29] KM: You’re the one who was supposed to get Michigan. I mean, Massachusetts.

[00:47:33] LS: Well, thank you.

[00:47:34] KM: All right. I love seeing you guys.

[00:47:35] LS: This was a lot of fun, Kerry. Thank you.

[00:47:36] KM: Come back on there with me, will you?

[00:47:38] LS: How about next week?

[00:47:40] KM: Okay.


[00:47:41 KM: Thanks again for joining me and my guests. For those listeners who might have a great entrepreneurial story they'd like to share, send a brief bio and your contact info to kerry@flagandbanner.com, and someone will be in touch.

To all my listeners, thank you for spending time with us. We hope you’ve heard or learned something that’s been inspiring or enlightening and that it, whatever it is, we’ll help you up your business, your independence, and your life. I’m Kerry McCoy, and I’ll see you next time on Up In Your Business. Until then, be brave.

[00:48:06] GM: You’ve been listening to Up In Your Business with Kerry McCoy. For links to resources you’ve heard discussed on today’s show, go to flagandbanner.com. Select radio and choose today’s guest. All interviews are recorded and posted the following week. Subscribe to podcasts wherever you like to listen.


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