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Up In Your Business Home PageAbout Kerry McCoy

Barry Corkern of Barry M. Corkern Financial Advisers

December 2, 2016

Barry Corkern, founder of Barry M. Corkern & Co. advises and assist clients in making financial decisions, by providing them with information, that will aide in the strategic thinking of their life-long and multi-generational goals. Corkern also advises in fiduciary audits and when needed gives expert testimonies under oath.

In 1983 he received his CFP, Certified Financial Planner designation. In 2003 from the University of Pittsburgh he received his AIFA, Accredited Investment Fiduciary Auditor designation. Corkern is the first and sole AIFA in the state of Arkansas.

Barry is the founding president of the Arkansas Chapter of the Financial Planning Association, where in 2004 he was presented with a “Lifetime Achievement Award”. Money Magazine, designated Corkern as one of the best 200 financial planners in the United States. Named again, in Bloomberg Wealth Manager Magazine, Corkern's firm was ranked 54th in the list 150 top wealth managers in the United States.

Corkern was once the host of his very own radio show “Ask The Experts” on KARN. Now he is a recurring expert guest on THV11 in Little Rock Arkansas.

And last, but not least, Corkern co-authored his book “Widowed – Beginning Again Personally and Financially” published in 1999. Profits from the sale of this book are donated to nonprofit organizations that assist widows.

 

 

 

UP IN YOUR BUSINESS WITH KERRY MCCOY - EPISODE 12 TRANSCRIPT - BARRY CORKERN

[INTRODUCTION]

[0:00:03.2] TB: Welcome to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. Be sure to stay tuned till the end of the show to hear how you can get a copy of this program and other helpful documents.

Now, it's time for Kerry McCoy to get all up in your business.

[INTERVIEW]

[0:00:19.3] KM: Hello, you’re listening to Kerry McCoy and it’s time for me to get all up in your business. You may be asking yourself what makes this lady qualified to do this, and I’ll tell you. Experience.

40 years ago with just $400, I started Arkansas Flag and Banner. Since then, it’s morphed into flagandbanner.com with sales nearing four million, that’s worth saying again, I started Arkansas Flag and Banner with just $400 and today we have sales nearing four million.

I started by selling flags door to door then went to telemarketing. Next mail order and catalog sales and today we rely heavily on the internet. In addition, over the last 40 years, I’ve navigated flag and banner through two recessions and two wars. When people find out I’m that woman who owns Arkansas Flag and Banner, they often say, “Oh I have heard about you” and began asking me business advice.

I amaze even myself with all the knowledge I’ve gained. If you call me for advice, from me or my guest, you will not be given text book answers or theory. But you will be given candid advice from my real world experience. Be prepared to hear the truth, it’s not always easy to hear.

For instance, you may not want to hear this. In business, there are very few overnight successes. Starting and owning a business takes persistence, perseverance and patience. When I started Arkansas Flag and Banner, I supplemented my income by waitressing.

All while I pedaled my flags door to door. After nine years, did you hear me? Nine years of working a part time job, the company began to grow and solely support me. My first hire was a book keeper to handle the clerical side of my business.

My first expansion was to begin the manufacturing of custom flags. So a sewing department developed. The next decade ushered in desert storm war. Flags were scarce so a screen printing department was hardly built to meet the consumers demands.

In addition to sales and manufacturing, Flag and Banner now has a purchasing department, a shipping department, technology department, marketing department, call center and a retail store. I spearheaded the development of everyone of this departments.

My experience is deep and wide and my advice is free, I hope you’ll take advantage of this unique opportunity. Before we start taking calls, I want to introduce you to the people at the table. We have Tim Bo, our technician who will be taking your calls and pushing the buttons. Say hello Tim.

[0:02:56.5] TB: Hello Tim.

[0:02:57.3] KM: My guest today is Barry Corkern of Barry M. Corkern and Company.Very original. Their website says they advise and assist clients in making financial decisions by providing them with information that will aid in a strategic thinking of their lifelong and multi-generational goals.

I’ll say that again in lay man terms. His company and his passion is to help clients execute and make informed decisions about their lifelong and family goals. Barry also advices in fiduciary audits and when needed, gives expert testimonies under oath. In 1983 which is about when I met him, he received his CFP, Certified Financial Planner designation. In 2003 from the university of Pittsburgh, he received his AIFA designation, Accredited Investment Fiduciary Auditor.

Making him the first and only AIFA person in the state of Arkansas. Barry is founding president of the Arkansas Chapter of Financial Planning Association where in 2004 he was presented with a lifetime achievement award. Money Magazine designated Barry Corkern as one of the best 200 financial planners in the whole United States.

Nationally recognized again in Bloomberg’s Wealth Manager Magazine. Barry’s firm is ranked 54th in the top of the list of wealth managers in the United States. He was once the host of his very own radio show, Ask the Experts that was on KARN. Now, he has a reoccurring expert guest on THV’s morning show in Little Rock Arkansas. Last but not least, I love this one.

Barry coauthored his book Widowed: Beginning Again Personally and Financially. Published in 1999, profits from the sale of his book are donated to nonprofit organizations that assisted widows. Welcome to the table Barry Corkern.

[0:05:04.7] BC: You’re making me blush.

[0:05:05.6] KM: I think I am, you kind of look like, it’s like your mama.

[0:05:08.3] BC: It’s kind of hard to sit here and listen to all of those compliments.

[0:05:11.1] KM: I didn’t even list it all. I cut it down, that may be the longest intro I’ve ever done in my 12 radio shows so far. I asked you on today because I got an email from a listener and I quote, she asks, “Can you speak to the issues around multi-generational businesses and succession issues?”

Today I want to ask your advice on exiting strategies for small businesses, building wealth and retirement for the average person and what you think is the biggest, most single mistake people make but before we get to the listener’s question about multi-generational businesses and succession issues. I want you to tell us about yourself, you’ve done a lot to say the least. What are you doing right now and what is your current passion?

[0:05:53.2] BC: Wow.

[0:05:54.1] KM: Catch you off guard?

[0:05:54.9] BC: Yeah, just a little bit you know? Having been in this business for decades, we establish plans and strategies with families and my practice is maturing to the point where I’m seeing those plans actually be executed and come into play and we’re seeing wealth and opportunity move to the next generation and so for me, that’s very exciting to setup an estate plan or a trust 20 years ago and to see it actually do what it’s supposed to do and to do it very effectively.

[0:06:27.9] KM: How’d you do? Did you do good?

[0:06:30.2] BC: Well sure, we did very well.

[0:06:31.2] KM: Sounds like you did, 54th in the country.

[0:06:34.4] BC: I think that for financial advisers to get to the point where your practice is maturing and you’re working with the children, the second generation and having a voice to the third generation, their children of the wealth that mom and dad put together is very interesting, very rewarding work.

[0:06:50.7] KM: I bet. You’re listening to up in your business with Kerry McCoy on KABF, this is a mentoring show for small business owners or for those who are just starting their careers. My guest today is financial and wealth manager Barry Corkern. If you’ve got questions about how to sell, exit or pass on your business or maybe just a financial question about retirement or independent wealth, call us, this is your chance for free advice from a nationally recognized expert Barry Corkern, don’t be scared, I’ll make him talk in lay man terms.

If you’re thinking of the question, I’m sure someone else is too. Tim, what number do they call?

[0:07:27.1] TB: That number is, 501-433-0088.

[0:07:36.7] KM: If you don‘t want to call, you can email us questions at?

[0:07:39.4] TB: questions@upyourbusiness.org.

[0:07:41.8] KM: That’s right, thank you Tim.

[0:07:43.4] TB: You can tweet.

[0:07:44.0] KM: Yeah, you can tweet.

[0:07:45.9] TB: @askkerrymccoy and that’s Kerry spelled Kerry.

[0:07:49.9] KM: That’s right. I’m loving that. We’ve got a hashtag for today’s show called share wisdom, it’s hash brown share wisdom, that’s what the kids say, hash brown, they don’t say hash tag you know? Barry, you’re a small business owner, you started this business and you also help small business owners like me.

To speak to our listener’s question, let’s say you’re ready to start thinking about your exit strategy for you in your business and I think your three choices are these and you may have more. Pass it on to a family member or you could pass it on to your employees, Aesop, I love that.

Sell it, figure out what the value of it is or dissolving it. Where do you want to begin on that topic? Which one?

[0:08:31.9] BC: You know, it’s obviously a very personal family decision about whether, I guess the first discussion is are we going to pass on to the kids and so when your kids are five or six years old, kind of hard for you to imagine them even being interested or wanting to be involved. In your business at all.

As your children get older and they develop their own interest and their goals and what they want to do, it’s not uncommon for the children not to do what mom or dad did. It takes a while for a business owner to determine that there’s not going to be a family member who is a good candidate to step into their shoes when they retire.

[0:09:13.1] KM: You say there usually is a child that wants to go into the business or there usually isn’t?

[0:09:18.5] BC: There usually isn’t ?

[0:09:19.5] KM: Is not.

[0:09:20.3] BC: Yeah. I think more often the case that the children just develop other interest and other passions that is not the self-lags or give financial advice or whatever the business is or that maybe they’re not as skilled or equipped to run the business that was started by the previous generations. It’s not uncommon at all and it forces the business owner into one of the other alternatives but the first evaluation is, do I have anybody in the family that’s going to do this?

[0:09:54.6] KM: You don’t know.

[0:09:56.5] BC: You don’t know. It’s almost like you don’t know until it’s too late because you don’t know until they get through high school and college or tech school and get their education and kind of get that youth part behind them and then begin to try and think about what they want to do with their lives and so they might be for me, it took a long time, older than 25 or 30.

[0:10:17.4] KM: What did your dad do?

[0:10:19.4] BC: He was a truck driver.

[0:10:20.0] KM: What?

[0:10:21.6] BC: Yes.

[0:10:21.8] KM: I love that, you know, they need truck drivers right now, they’ve got a shortage of truck drivers.

[0:10:25.0] BC: Well, that’s one of the problems we have in the economy, there’s lot of areas where there’s shortage of people to do jobs like that.

[0:10:34.0] KM: They need them, there’s not enough people that want to be away from home. Sounds like the perfect way to be happily married to a truck driver, he’s gone half the time and stay married forever, I don’t know.

I went to you when my kids were young remember?

[0:10:45.4] BC: Yup, right, I do.

[0:10:47.6] KM: You help me do a very extensive plan about succession of my children and then we had to redo it again. How often do you have to revisit this –

[0:10:57.1] BC: At the time in your case, when we looked at that, your kids were really young and we really couldn’t assess their ability to run your business or their desire to run their business. It was about how do we capture that economic value of what you have built and then pass that along to them because the presumption was that they weren’t, we didn’t know whether they were going to take on the business.

When your kids get older, you begin to kind of sense or feel, they’re not going to be canons or they are. Yes…

[0:11:29.8] KM: When do you bring them in and ask them? When do you bring them all in and say –

[0:11:32.8] BC: No, the parents you know –

[0:11:34.1] KM: You don‘t ask them.

[0:11:35.3] BC: You just need to review this every few years and here’s our plan and you know, “gee, how do you feel about your son and daughter and their skill or ability or interest in running your business” and if the answer is, “I’m not feeling it” then it’s not going to work out.

I think that’s a little bit of the problem because it takes apparent a number of years. I think maybe if I just kind of give it another year or so, my son or my daughter’s going to be a good candidate and then you know, maybe it still doesn’t work out. Then you find yourself “gee, here we are, my kids are in their 30’s and I’m in my 60’s and you know, kind of behind the curb to make a decision here.”

[0:12:14.1] KM: You don’t know you just decide to put it in – but your concern, my concern is, my employees because they’re like family also. I want to do what is also right by them. If you don’t think your children want to do the business, what do you recommend to your –

[0:12:36.5] BC: Well, that’s –

[0:12:38.4] KM: No, let’s actually start with they do want it, let’s decide your kids do want it, how do you transfer the business and they will move on to selling it or dissolving it. Your kids do want your business.

[0:12:51.2] BC: That’s probably the most complicated of all the options because selling it is a different path and that’s actually easier than integrating the children and probably the biggest problem with having the kids step into the shoes of the member who started the business is, the member lingers and stays on.

The loyalty that the employee has to the company, “but I’ve worked for this person for 40 years and now this young whipper snapper is coming in here and it’s just a different,” very difficult transition for employees to make.

[0:13:31.1] KM: What we did and I’ll just share, I don’t think it matters, we did a board so that if I pass, Arkansas Flag and Banner goes into a trust and then that trust I believe, gosh, I’m trying to remember, I think we have a trust with, and the trust – then Arkansas Flag and Banner was a part of that trust.

Then there was a board of three Arkansas Flag and Banner and one was you of course, of course you’re my agent too. Then the other one was a family member that rotated on and off every year so a new family member and then we had just a professional, a bank trustee or something.

[0:14:11.6] BC: Let’s kind of go back to that, when you talk about small business, I could either be sole proprietorship, it might be a partnership or it might be a limited liability company, it might be a corporation. There’s legal issues about how you treat all of those.

In small business owners, there’s not a board of directors and the idea that you adopt a board of directors, even though you’re the only person running the company…

[0:14:38.2] KM: That’s what you do?

[0:14:39.9] BC: That’s exactly what you should do is that you should have a kind of a quasar board of directors or real board of directors that help guide that business to you know, down one path or the other and so in the absence of the business owner who has all the experience and knowledge to do that and you lose that person, the board of director steps in and they guide the business and it doesn’t necessarily trigger the sale of the business because the business owner has passed away.

It just says that this committee of three people are going to be good stewards of the business, whether they keep it and then nurture it to see if one family member steps in those shoes or whether you sell it or some other transition but the whole idea is to capture the value of the business. It doesn’t degrade or decline in value so that –

[0:15:32.5] KM: So that you can sell if you want to after you’re gone. Here’s me, I don’t ever want to sell my business probably. I mean, I might, I don’t know but right now I don’t think I’m going to sell my business.

[0:15:41.6] BC: You will never sell your business.

[0:15:42.5] KM: Yeah, you know me. And, I’ll never retire. Will I?

[0:15:45.2] BC: No, you will never retire.

[0:15:48.0] KM: I’ll be sitting at the desk and all of a sudden one day I will have a heart attack and they’ll find me in there with my cup of coffee and they’ll come to you and they’ll say, “Mom is gone, what did she have in place?” You will say, “We now have to start a board, Arkansas Flag and Banner will now be run by a board and no longer by Kerry McCoy and these are the board members and you all get together and I’ll facilitate and we’ll make decisions as a group and if you all want to sell it, we’ll sell it.

If you all want to grow it, we’ll grow it. If you all want to work in it, you can work in it.” It becomes their decision on what they want to do with their life and the business that I left.

[0:16:32.0] BC: That board of directors or in some cases a trustee committee, actually has the primary objective of stabilizing the business.

[0:16:42.4] KM: That’s you, you’re saying that’s you?

[0:16:44.5] BC: Well, that’s the whole –

[0:16:45.5] KM: No, the whole board.

[0:16:45.6] BC: Yeah, the whole board.

[0:16:47.4] KM: Okay.

[0:16:47.4] BC: Whether it’s selling flags or you're selling chickens.

[0:16:50.6] KM: Or you have a restaurant.

[0:16:51.4] BC: Or we have a restaurant, whatever that business is, is that they are to step in and stabilize and maintain and manage, make sure that there’s a good manager and the business is managed well to be profitable and stabilize. It’s good for the employees, it’s good for whoever gets the value of the business but the whole key to it is that board or that trustee committee needs to have, if they don’t have any experience running a restaurant, they need to get a third party there that knows how to do a restaurant so you need somebody who has keen business sense and specific experience with that industry and then somebody who has an interest in making good decisions for your kids.

That’s why we kind of have three, a committee of three –

[0:17:41.5] KM: Even that committee of three could vote, I want to have a committee of five and get two more people they want on there once that happens. They could say you know, “We’re not smart enough, let’s get a lawyer and an attorney on this board with us?”

[0:17:50.6] BC: In your case, the committee would need, they would get together, they would evaluate, do we see anybody in the company who would be a good person to promote to manage the business and has the skillset or we’re going to do triage, we’re going to hire somebody short term just to keep daily operations going, while we interview a new person to run the business and hire them to do so.

[0:18:15.0] KM: Tell me what triage means? Quit using big words on me. What’s triage, it’s got to have something with three.

[0:18:20.8] BC: Emergency repair or emergency attention.

[0:18:25.3] KM: Just like surgery.

[0:18:25.9] BC: Yeah, well that’s what they do in the emergency room of hospitals.

[0:18:29.5] KM: Okay, we hire, a triage comes in and stops the bleeding and –

[0:18:36.4] BC: You have to immediately take the steps to keep the business stabilized and moving forward.

[0:18:40.7] KM: And keep everybody feeling confident.

[0:18:42.1] BC: Yeah. As soon as you communicate that to the employees, there’s somebody in charge, there is a plan, it’s being executed and it’s going to be in our best interest.

[0:18:52.5] KM: There’s somebody in charge, there is a plan and it’s being executed and it’s going to be in the company’s best interest.

[0:18:57.6] BC: yes.

[0:18:58.6] KM: Those are awesome. Somebody in charge, there is a plan, it’s going to be executed and it’s in the company’s best interest. Those are exactly the issues, you said that perfectly. You’re listening to Up in your business with Kerry McCoy on KABF. This is a mentoring show for small business owners or for those who are just starting their careers.

My guest today is financial and wealth manager Barry Corkern. If you’ve got questions about how to sell, exit or pass on your business or maybe just a financial question about retirement or independent wealth which we’re going to get to next, well not next but soon. This is your chance for free advice from a nationally recognized expert Barry Corkern. Don’t be scared, I’ll make him explain what triage and big words mean.

If you’re thinking that someone else might be too so call.

[0:19:46.7] TB: 501-433-0088.

[0:19:51.2] KM: Or you can send an email to.

[0:19:53.6] TB: questions@upyourbusiness.org.

[0:19:56.2] KM: And we’re tweeting.

[0:19:57.1] TB: That’s right, it’s @askkerrymccoy.

[0:20:01.9] KM: And if you want to share your wisdom, it’s #sharewisdom.

[0:20:06.6] TB: Share wisdom, that’s right.

[0:20:07.5] KM: I got a good hashtag.

[0:20:08.5] TB: I like it.

[0:20:09.4] KM: Thank you. I came up with that the other day. Okay, now we know how to make a plan, you just told us how to make a plan.

[0:20:18.3] BC: Well you just have to –

[0:20:18.9] KM: Responsibility over to the living members after you’re gone. They can sell it or do whatever.

[0:20:23.0] BC: And banking a plan involves engaging and an expert who has the knowledge and experience and strategic planning.

[0:20:30.6] KM: How do you find them? Because you’re full, you don’t want any more business. I already know that.

[0:20:35.6] BC: How do you find – you have to find a fee based adviser.

[0:20:38.8] KM: Do you do it on the internet? You got the internet? You called the state?

[0:20:42.3] BC: To find one? Yeah.

[0:20:43.4] KM: How do you find good people?

[0:20:44.9] BC: Just a fee based adviser and interview them and tell them what your situation is.

[0:20:49.7] KM: You want them to be fee based. What does that mean?

[0:20:52.1] BC: That means that they’re not going to spend all this time trying to get to sell you a financial product or service where they make a commission.

[0:20:58.7] KM: When I met you, you used to sell annuities, insurance and you quit.

[0:21:03.5] BC: Yeah.

[0:21:04.1] KM: Is that why? Because you felt like it was a conflict of interest?

[0:21:08.3] BC: Very definitely a conflict of interest and I wasn’t interested in selling, I was interested in advising and you know, I just eventually converted my practice to fee only.

[0:21:18.3] KM: You know, it’s funny though about fees because you don’t get anything in your hand. I didn’t just sell you a flag and you walked out with a flag fees or kind of this intangible service.

[0:21:29.0] BC: It’s a struggle.

[0:21:30.7] KM: I bet it is.

[0:21:31.5] BC: I mean, it really is a struggle. You know, where if I sell you a refrigerator and I get a commission, you got the refrigerator and so –

[0:21:40.0] KM: People have to understand how important your position is in their life.

[0:21:44.5] BC: Yeah, the fee means that that person’s going to be objective and they have to advise you in your best interest and they’re not trying to sell a bunch of stuff to win a trip to the Bahamas and you know, that they’re working for you not for someone else.

[0:22:01.3] KM: If your financial planner says, “You need an annuity in your portfolio, sign here, I’m selling it to you” and they won’t talk about your retirement plans. He’s not the right guy.

[0:22:11.0] BC: That’s not the right guy. What does that have to do with business succession anyway and it’s kind of going to the wrong store for the advice that you need. You don’t necessarily need a financial product to make the decisions and go through the planning process that we’re talking about.

[0:22:29.4] KM: We’ve got – gosh, I’ve got so much to talk about but before we do, I want to explain what a trust is because the older I get, the less I care about looking stupid and asking questions but when I was young, I was like, “What’s a trust?” I didn’t know.

Tell everybody what a trust is and why people need trust?

[0:22:47.0] BC: Wow, that might – well, I’m going to try to narrow that down.

[0:22:50.9] KM: Lay man terms.

[0:22:51.8] BC: Yeah, a trust is just kind of a separate legal entity and so if you own your car then your name is on it but if you have a trust and the trust owns the car then it’s just separate ownership.

The positive thing about the trust is that everybody’s role is identified, there’s the guarantor, the person who sets up the trust and puts the property in there, there’s the beneficiary that is a person who is going to benefit by it and then there’s the trustee who has the duty and responsibility to be a good steward of the property in the trust.

[0:23:26.1] KM: I think you're talking over everybody’s head, I’m going to dumb it down for them. There is a big umbrella and everything that you own goes and gets up under this umbrella. When you die, that umbrella protects all your things.

[0:23:44.3] BC: Takes care of everything.

[0:23:45.4] KM: It takes care of all the issues that happen but it also keeps you from having to pay inheritance taxes.

[0:23:53.4] BC: Well, there is –

[0:23:54.4] KM: Because now that umbrella becomes a person almost.

[0:23:56.5] BC: Yeah. That’s why it’s kind of a separate entity, it’s a separate thing, separate from you so yes.

[0:24:02.6] KM: I’m an entity and this trust is an entity and when you move all of your stuff out of your own possession and you move it into this big umbrella, it now stays there so when you die, it’s not passing on as an inheritance tax but it stays there.

[0:24:17.1] BC: For many years, we use trust in different ways in order to avoid a state taxes.

[0:24:22.0] KM: That’s why you and I did it.

[0:24:23.7] BC: Yeah, but now, because a state taxes, those laws have evolved and changed, we’re using trust for less, for that reason.

[0:24:33.1] KM: Yeah, it’s six million dollars.

[0:24:35.0] BC: 5.4 and –

[0:24:36.1] KM: Nobody’s got that kind of money.

[0:24:38.1] BC: We’re using this trust more often to avoid probate and to simplify things like this committee stepping in because the moment of death, that means that committee is effectively appointed at that moment in time. You don’t have to go to court, you don’t have to get agreement, you don’t have to do anything instantaneously, what’s in that trust those committee members are driving the car.

[0:25:03.5] KM: Could I have put my board and put them together and all the things we talked about just a minute ago, my succession after - could I have done it without a trust or did I have to have a trust to make all of those rules underneath to keep it legal?

[0:25:17.0] BC: You don’t have to have a trust but in your case, there were other reasons that you should have a trust.

[0:25:23.4] KM: You really need advice from somebody like you? This is a deep subject.

[0:25:27.4] BC: It gets very complex, even for a very simple business, it gets very complex very quickly.

[0:25:33.6] KM: Right. Okay, let’s say because we could spend forever on just that subject.

[0:25:39.2] BC: Yes we could.

[0:25:41.5] KM: Say you decide you want to dissolve the business? My parents wanted to dissolve their business because like you said, I didn’t want it. I had my own thing going and so they want to dissolve their business and they did it, how do you suggest, I know they did it by inventory reduction.

How else, what are your suggestions if you want to start dissolving your business and taking the money out of it?

[0:26:04.1] BC: Well, once again, it depends entirely on the kind of business and what the assets are in the business and for each kind of business, there are certain legal issues that need to be addressed and then there’s income tax issues and so somebody owns a manufacturing firm has a completely different set of this illusion issues or you’re going to dissolve the business as compared to a consultant or somebody that has a hair salon.

They’re just very different businesses. Depending on a variety of factors, there’s, in some cases a lot to consider. In cases where somebody has a corporation where you retain wealth inside your corporation, the challenge is to get that wealth out of the corporation, you stop doing business and the challenge is if you got wealth inside the corporation, you left money in there, it’s how do I get it out tax efficiently?

Depending on a variety of factors, you develop a strategy that might take a few years, actually to unwind that and then be permitted to dissolve the corporation.

[0:27:13.8] KM: My parents, they just began to cut their expenses so they went from back then, you had lines coming in so they had like four lines coming in, they went down to one line coming in. They saved money on their telephone bill and then they began to save money on their utilities, then they begin to cut back their pay roll. They begin to take the money out over years out of the business, they reduced their inventory and by the time they finally quit working, there wasn’t much left in the business.

[0:27:42.1] BC: Right, that’s an example of the business that required a slow process by which you slow down the business.

[0:27:49.3] KM: that’s what they did.

[0:27:50.5] BC: You lower the volume of sales and you use various strategies and techniques to get the wealth out of the corporation tax efficiently into their hands and sometimes that takes two or three years. What’s interesting about that is they couldn’t have done it abruptly.

They couldn’t have said, “Hey, on December 31st, we’re just going to kind of stop doing this, we’ll shut it down, give the employees a bonus and call it a day.”

[0:28:15.2] KM: Why couldn’t they have done that?

[0:28:16.9] BC: Because there has to be a business purpose for you to continue a business and deploy some of these strategies. Because it was a taxable event to take everything out of the corporation.

[0:28:26.8] KM: Because it would have been too heavily of a tax burn if it had just stopped. You know, Stanley’s Jewelers, I saw is closing their doors and I’ve asked them to come over in February I think to come talk to me about shutting down their businesses like 80 something years old and they’re doing it pretty abruptly.

Although, they may have been planning for years, I don’t know to be interesting to find out about that.

[0:28:47.6] BC: Yes, that would be interesting. I doubt that they reached that conclusion or –

[0:28:52.9] KM: Yesterday?

[0:28:54.0] BC: yes.

[0:28:56.7] KM: Then you can distribute your assets, you pay off your debts, what’s the biggest mistake that most people do when they do this so they don’t think about the tax ramifications?

[0:29:03.8] BC: Yes. It’s very easy to make a misstep in dissolving a company only to be hit with a gigantic tax bill a year, a year and a half later because you didn’t realize what you were doing.

[0:29:18.6] KM: All your life you’ve worked and now all of a sudden you exited not very strategically or intelligently and now all the money you’ve made, you’ve had to go to pay the taxes?

[0:29:27.6] BC: Your nest egg is scrambled.

[0:29:29.5] KM: Your nest egg is scrambled. #sharewisdom. Your nest egg is scrambled. I like that. You’re listening to Up in your business with Kerry McCoy on KABF, this is a mentoring show for small business owners or for those just starting their careers.

My guest today is financial and wealth manager Barry Corkern, if you’ve got questions for him or for me, call us at.

[0:29:53.0] TB: 501-433-0088.

[0:29:57.0] KM: Or, you can email your questions to.

[0:30:00.5] TB: question@upyourbusiness.org.

[0:30:02.7] KM: Or you can tweet because I’m a tweeter.

[0:30:04.2] TB: @askkerrymccoy.

[0:30:06.3] KM: And if you want to share your wisdom it is –

[0:30:09.8] TB: #sharewisdom.

[0:30:11.1] KM: I love that hashtag. All right so now you’ve got to get all your papers in order. Are there any special papers at closing your business just like POD?

[0:30:21.1] BC: That’s a nightmare. What are you talking about?

[0:30:25.3] KM: He’s so honest. All right let’s move on to selling it. Now we’re going to selling your business.

[0:30:31.2] BC: Well let me –

[0:30:32.3] KM: You didn’t talk about ESOP where you could pass your business onto your well –

[0:30:34.5] BC: Yeah, let me just speak to someone that has a business that is over broad fit and they just want to unwind it. All of these licenses for city license and state and payroll taxes and all of these things that we do that are regulations and businesses are required to do, you’ve got to unwind all of that. You’ve got to send the notices to say I am not going be in business anymore. I just recently had a close up medical practice with a client who is a doctor.

And it probably took a year and a half to notify all of the responsible parties but that practice wasn’t going to be and the requirement, the regulations required documents to be scanned and maintained in a safe place for a certain number of years and so depending on the business unwinding it can be extremely complex.

[0:31:27.8] KM: What if you said “No, I am not going to do that. I’m dead, I don’t care”? What would happen? Who would they get?

[0:31:31.5] BC: They will find you.

[0:31:32.9] KM: They’ll find and dig you up.

[0:31:35.0] BC: They will find you, yeah.

[0:31:35.5] KM: Well you can’t retire and do that. If you retire they will find you but if you just drop dead, it’s your kid’s problem. Too bad.

[0:31:41.2] BC: Well, if you drop dead obviously not a problem but if you are trying to retire and you just close your business –

[0:31:48.8] KM: You are going to get letters from the IRS for the rest of your life.

[0:31:51.7] BC: And they come knocking on your door.

[0:31:52.9] KM: In little black cars and black sedans with headsets on.

[0:31:58.8] BC: Black suits and black ties.

[0:32:00.6] KM: Okay, you’re selling it. How do you come up with the value of your company because I’m always disappointed in this? I always think 42 years, it’s got to be worth something and they come in and they go, “$200,000”. I’m like, “What?”

[0:32:13.4] BC: Yeah well businesses trade based on the price agreed to by a willing seller and a willing buyer. So you’ve got to have those two.

[0:32:21.8] KM: So Google is way overpriced or was it Yahoo? Which was sold that was way – oh it was Facebook sold way overpriced.

[0:32:30.1] BC: But we’re talking about a restaurant north of Little Rock.

[0:32:32.2] KM: Oh yeah, nobody wants that.

[0:32:34.6] BC: Yeah and so how do I sell that and the value of it is that a business owner plays two roles. They are the manager and the owner. The owner is getting compensation for making the investment and the manager is getting compensation for working. So most of us are both, managers and owners. So we’re investors and employees and so the value of the business is really driven to the investor, is really driven by how profitable the business is for the owner because –

[0:33:08.0] KM: So they look at the owner’s salary.

[0:33:09.3] BC: They look at the manager’s salary and how much can I make in salary or compensation to run this business and that’s a factor in how you value that and there’s a lot of people who don’t make a profit as an owner. They are only making enough money to pay their salary.

[0:33:32.3] KM: They’re just making salary.

[0:33:33.8] BC: Yeah, so that means their business isn’t worth as much as they think that it’s worth.

[0:33:37.6] KM: Well I have a lot of inventory. What’s inventory worth? It’s not worth what I think is worth.

[0:33:43.7] BC: Well it depends on what the inventory is.

[0:33:45.3] KM: It’s probably aged, it probably has something to do with the age of the inventory.

[0:33:48.7] BC: Yeah, well it depends on a flag that sits on the box for three years looks like the flag that’s at a box that you got yesterday. So it depends –

[0:33:57.6] KM: Oh it’s not perishable you mean?

[0:33:59.2] BC: Yeah, so it really depends on what the inventory of what we are talking about but the components of the value of the business are the earnings and the inventory and do you own the building and the land where your business is.

[0:34:12.3] KM: Because you might sell the building with it.

[0:34:13.5] BC: Yeah, so there’s just a lot of it –

[0:34:16.1] KM: Does your accountant help you value it?

[0:34:18.1] BC: Well there are some accountants who are eligible or qualified and trained to appraise businesses but that’s a very expensive process, very expensive –

[0:34:27.6] KM: I get emails all the time from people saying, “Do you want to sell your business?” do you use those people? Do you?

[0:34:34.1] BC: Well those people are intermediaries looking for deals so that’s –

[0:34:41.2] KM: So if you are desperate you use them to get it done quick?

[0:34:43.1] BC: Well I am very uncomfortable with those people who are out and looking for businesses to –

[0:34:48.2] KM: What if I want to sell my business tomorrow. How would I go about it? Not that I do but how would I go about it? I would put it in the paper? I mean how do you set – I mean it’s like a car. You don’t just go, “Hey I’ve got a Ford Chevy” - oh Ford Chevy I can’t do that.

[0:35:00.5] BC: Probably the best thing you do is go to your competitor because they understand the business, they could use the inventory and –

[0:35:08.1] KM: So you look for a synergized partner, is that the right way?

[0:35:11.4] BC: Yes, somebody who could appreciate that and maybe you’re doing business in a way that is better than theirs and it might be a smaller business or a larger business but going to a competitor or someone who owns the business that might be a compliment to their business.

[0:35:30.0] KM: And add on to increase their product line.

[0:35:31.2] BC: Yeah to something that make sense for the business that they do.

[0:35:34.2] KM: So before we change off the succession subject and we didn’t talk about ESOP’s for passing it onto your employees, I love that one. There is a lot of grocery stores out there that are employee owned and I love that. Have you ever done one of those?

[0:35:47.4] BC: Yes, we’ve actually worked with some people that have done that –

[0:35:50.1] KM: Were they successful very much?

[0:35:51.3] BC: Yeah, many times they are because most of the time they are leveraging these ESOP’s, that means a bank has to make some loans to the plan to cash out the owners and so in order to get a bank involved at an ESOP, there’s a lot of eyes and –

[0:36:10.3] KM: And then it has a board probably.

[0:36:12.4] BC: Yeah so in order words that’s vetted. I mean it goes through a process that if you put in a leveraged ESOP then there’s elements in the plan that lend to its success.

[0:36:23.4] KM: And then all the employees pretty much keep their pay. They just get stopped in that right? They just become partial owners just like stock in the company.

[0:36:30.3] BC: Yeah, they are working for themselves if you will.

[0:36:33.2] KM: If I did go and sell my business to somebody to a synergized company for me, I know the flag company let’s say, would you owner finance it? I had a girlfriend owner finance to sell her business and then it went belly up and she ended up not getting any money. Have you ever seen that where the owner finances it?

[0:36:50.8] BC: Yes.

[0:36:51.5] KM: You don’t like it I can tell.

[0:36:53.1] BC: You’re right.

[0:36:55.0] KM: I could tell the look on your face. You’re not a banker Kerry, don’t start financing people.

[0:37:00.0] BC: Yeah, I mean if you are selling a land and a building I mean it’s not –

[0:37:03.4] KM: Well you could go get it back.

[0:37:04.6] BC: Yeah because you can get that back but –

[0:37:05.7] KM: But you can run your business into the ground and now you’ve got it back and you got to start all over and you were trying to retire.

[0:37:10.9] BC: Yeah, you know if the bank is not going to lend the money then there’s no reason for you to lend the money. So by and large I am not really crazy about that.

[0:37:18.5] KM: So you know the story of the town cobbler whose children have no shoes?

[0:37:21.2] BC: Yes.

[0:37:21.7] KM: Do you have a succession plan that’s all wrapped up in your life? I am listening to this answer really closely.

[0:37:27.8] BC: Yes, I do because there’s a short term and a long term succession play.

[0:37:34.1] KM: I can tell it’s private. All right, you are listening to Up In Your Business with Kerry McCoy on KABF. This is a mentoring show for small business owners or for those just starting their careers. My guest today is Financial Wealth Manager, Barry Corkern who is nationally recognized. I can’t believe no one’s called and asked him a question. You know every time they don’t call is because my guest is intimidating. You are a smart dude. This is your chance to get advice from the Barry Corkern, don’t be scared. I’ll make him talk in simple terms, what are you going to do?

[0:38:05.4] BC: You know I am always scary but I would love to help. You know channel 11 had three or four people to answer phone calls and it’s just open to anybody to just call in and ask questions.

[0:38:16.6] KM: Did you get many?

[0:38:17.7] BC: It was from 6:00 in the morning to 9:30 and they started at 6:00 and all the phones were just ringing off the wall and it was a cellphone and somewhere in the middle of that three and a half hours, I looked at my phone and there were 173 missed called. I cleared that out and by the time that we were finishing, three and a half hours later, I had over 200 missed calls and I was walking out of the station and somebody called the landline and said, “Would you talk to this guy?” So the need on the financial world has gotten so complex, the need out there by the public is great and –

[0:38:53.4] KM: It is. We are going to leave just the business world and we’re going to move to retirement plans for everybody. Give them the phone number Tim if anybody wants to call in.

[0:39:02.9] TB: Sure, that’s 501-433-0088.

[0:39:07.2] KM: Or you can send questions to –

[0:39:09.7] TB: questions@upyourbusiness.org.

[0:39:11.8] KM: We’ve only got 15 minutes left so let’s switch gears. I know we could talk forever, you’re going to have to come back on. Let’s switch gears and let’s speak to everyone listening. Let’s say they can’t afford you because nobody can afford you. No, but you are full and you are not taking any more people. What is the first thing that you would recommend for the people listening to start on their dream of independence and wealth management? What’s the first thing they should do?

[0:39:35.6] BC: Well actually there is a company here in town that charges modest fees and modest hourly rates to give objectives financial advice and there’s a lady named Karen Wages who’s a CFP at Financial Decisions and they’re located right off of 430 in West Little Rock and –

[0:39:58.8] KM: I have used them. She’s great.

[0:39:59.8] BC: Yeah and to be fair and honest I am a small shareholder in that company but we started it so that we could have somebody who is qualified to talk to people who didn’t have a lot of money and she’s very qualified –

[0:40:16.0] KM: Is that why you sent me to her because I don’t have very much money, is that what you are saying? I think that’s what you’re saying, I was too small for you. Kicked me out the door and sent me to Karen.

[0:40:24.1] BC: No it’s all about objectivity because you’re mom and dad were a client of mine and so there’s a little bit of conflict there so –

[0:40:29.6] KM: Yeah and she’s great and you’re right. It’s a small office and they speak layman language. They will explain it to you. I really love it so go talk to Karen Wages, we’ll put a link to her up on upyourbusiness.org. We’ll link to her.

[0:40:45.5] BC: And so that’s a place to start is hiring somebody who you can pay them $35 an hour to look at all your stuff and your 401(k) and then I have all my stuff and for a reasonable amount of money, do some reliable projections for what you need to do and help you make some of these decisions.

[0:41:06.2] KM: So there’s three savings retirement plans that I know of, there may be more and it’s IRA, the 401(k) and the pension plan. I know she does IRA’s, she doesn’t do 401(k) but she can send you to someone that does because she did me and then the pension plan I don’t have a clue about how that works.

[0:41:23.5] BC: Yeah most people – we don’t see many pension plans anymore for a variety of reasons. We could spend a lot of time talking about that but you don’t see very much of a pension plan. What’s really important is you, your spouse have a 401(k) plan at work. You might have an IRA, you might have pieces of retirement accounts of former employers and you just need to get a handle on that and get advice about trying to get all organized and maybe transferred to one place and you might have an individual account –

[0:41:53.3] KM: I highly recommend getting it all in one place because it’s too unwieldy and nobody likes to think about it or talk about it.

[0:41:59.6] BC: Yeah and you may have a few thousand dollars on this account over this employer and then over that and it’s just chaos and that lacks coordination and so just getting organized is extremely helpful just to see it all on one page and get focused on.

[0:42:16.5] KM: Karen Wages at Financial Decisions will set up your IRA right?

[0:42:20.4] BC: She can set up an IRA, she can advise you on your 401(k) plan. She can talk to you about do you need a will or if your will is outdated and now financial advisers can’t do legal work and they can’t prepare documents but they can express their opinion about whether your will is out of date or whether you need one or the consequences of not having one. So actually a lot of people don’t even have one and have to be talked into having one. And so she draws on resources of accountants and attorneys to help those people implement what needs to be done.

[0:42:55.9] KM: So an IRA is a place that you save money and you can put your money in – well you can explain the difference of the Roth, the regular IRA and the Roth.

[0:43:07.8] BC: The regular IRA when I make a contribution, I want to pay taxes on it so I save taxes. If I’m in a low tax bracket maybe that is not such a big deal. What I do like is a Roth IRA because you make contributions after you’ve paid taxes and if you –

[0:43:22.2] KM: So you pay taxes on your income.

[0:43:24.0] BC: Yeah and then you make the contribution to the Roth IRA and you are never taxed on it again.

[0:43:28.3] KM: And the contribution means you put it in the IRA savings account.

[0:43:31.7] BC: Right, it comes out of your check payroll and gets deposited into your IRA or Roth IRA.

[0:43:39.6] KM: And when you take it out when you are 65 – was that, how old are you when you get to take it out?

[0:43:43.0] BC: Well you can start taking it when you are 59 and a half but you must take it out by the time you’re 70 and a half and the IRA when you start taking it out 20 to 30 years from now then it’s taxable and the Roth IRA, it’s never taxable.

[0:43:56.8] KM: So when you take it out you don’t have to pay taxes on it.

[0:43:59.0] BC: Yes, so if I am in a real low tax bracket and I’m really attracted to those Roth IRA’s because I’ll never have to pay taxes again.

[0:44:05.2] KM: So young people should start a Roth IRA.

[0:44:06.6] BC: Oh my gosh without a doubt.

[0:44:08.4] KM: And when should they start it?

[0:44:10.0] BC: Yesterday.

[0:44:10.6] KM: And how much of their part of their income should go on it?

[0:44:13.7] BC: Well I mean any amount is better than nothing and if you can put in 5% of your income or two or three percent of your income then don’t even think about it and here’s the deal that might be hard for you to think about my paycheck is going to be down another 10 or $15 because I do that but you will get accustomed to it. Somehow the other, you will make purchasing decisions that will accommodate the fact that you don’t have it.

So it will be painful for a week or two weeks, three weeks and then you just forget about it and then you get your accounts saying that, “Oh my gosh, I saved a $1,000 last year”.

[0:44:50.5] KM: So you go to Karen and you say, “Take this out of my check every week, make me do it” and she’ll set it all up for you, set up your Roth IRA and she’ll pull that out and if you put a $1,000 in, this is going to be a tricky question but you probably know the answer, if you put a $1,000 let’s say you start at 25 and by the time you’re 60 what is that $1,000?

[0:45:10.7] BC: Well it depends on the rules you set there too. It says you take the rate of return divided by 72 and that’s how often it doubles. It means that if –

[0:45:22.8] KM: You have a lot more than you think. I mean it’s like a million dollars. $200 a month turns into a million dollars in 30 years. It’s weird.

[0:45:31.6] BC: Yeah, if it makes about 7% it is going to double every 10 years.

[0:45:35.2] KM: It’s an amazingly large amount of money.

[0:45:37.5] BC: It is because if you take a $1,000 and you double it and –

[0:45:40.3] KM: And you double it and you double it and you double it and you double it every year in the next then you’re doubled, yeah and when we say double it, we don’t mean double it by adding more deposit. It doubles on its own.

[0:45:50.7] BC: The great message to young people is when they understand the time value of money that what you do when you are 25, it requires when you are 45 far more greater investment or contributions to your IRA. So $10 is like a thousand dollars for somebody for age 45. To get to the same place when you’re 65, you have to invest a lot more money with your own.

[0:46:16.5] KM: So one of the things that I don’t like about the IRA was you couldn’t get your money out without a penalty and the penalties are pretty steep but there are ways that you can get it out and that would be college. I got it out for college.

[0:46:27.3] BC: Yeah.

[0:46:27.6] KM: You don’t like that. I took money out for the kid’s college and they let you without a penalty.

[0:46:31.9] BC: Yeah.

[0:46:32.7] KM: Is there any other reason? You can’t take it out to roof your house.

[0:46:35.6] BC: Yeah but you got it to retire and retiring, let me tell you what the biggest risk that we have out there today and that’s longevity risk because people are living longer than 80 years of age.

[0:46:48.2] KM: My mother is 93 as you know.

[0:46:49.9] BC: Yeah and so people, your children will come – it will be common for people to be living to age 100 and so the importance of saving money and starting when you are 25 is just unbelievably important.

[0:47:07.4] KM: Did you hear that Tim? I hope he’s listening. Are you listening Tim?

[0:47:09.0] TB: Yes, I am listening.

[0:47:10.6] KM: I don’t know.

[0:47:11.5] TB: I have no money in savings at all.

[0:47:14.0] KM: I am going to start taking it off your paycheck every week.

[0:47:16.0] BC: Well and that is actually, behavioral economics is that’s what you do because –

[0:47:20.2] KM: Behavioral economics, share wisdom, behavioral economics.

[0:47:23.6] BC: So if you don’t have to make, just sign the form you don’t have to make your regular decision. It’s just automatic, it works.

[0:47:29.1] KM: I have to go do that for everybody that works for me, just make them sign a thing and just take it out of them because I’m in that mother mode.

[0:47:35.3] BC: Yeah, well let’s have a meeting. I’ll get that and I’ll straighten them out.

[0:47:38.2] KM: Good. I love that, you’re too busy. Okay I read your book – we’ve got five minutes left and I’ve read your book – I read it a long time ago, I forgot about it. It was great, what was the name of it, Widowed?

[0:47:48.4] BC: Widowed: Beginning Again Personally and Financially.

[0:47:50.6] KM: Tell me the reason why you wrote that book because this is a good story.

[0:47:53.3] BC: Well I actually worked with a number of widows in the past and when this lady came to me I thought she’s probably been widowed for maybe a couple of weeks just because of the way that she was handling her grief and confusion and –

[0:48:11.9] KM: Oh you thought it was a couple of weeks.

[0:48:12.8] BC: I thought it was a couple of weeks. It actually had been a year and a half and so she had really been struggling for a very, very long time and so she just got to the point where she just was encouraged by people to write a book about it and she was talking about how she went to book stores and couldn’t find one that was dealing with financial issues and personal issues and help a widow navigate through this very difficult time.

And at the same time, I had some people speaking into my life saying, “You know you should write a book about some of the things that you’re doing” so we just decided to write a book together and so I wrote a book with a client and we actually went to a guy named Ted Parker who ran August House and said, “Ted what do you think?” and he said, “Man this is a great way for us to tell the story of Sharon’s life” and then for you to give good financial advice to us.

[0:49:07.0] KM: I bet it was so cathartic for her.

[0:49:10.3] BC: It was. It was just a dead, it was just really amazing. We actually hired a writer, writing professor from UALR, Sally Crisp and she was kind of like, she said, You know, most time when you collaborate in the book, people just say, “here, you just do it and show us the draft.”

Sharon and I got in to roll our sleeves and that means we went through every paragraph of that book and we just worked all three together and Sally said, that was unusual because we wanted to write that book. I felt like an author and Sally was, she was the traffic cop you know? This is a one way street so you don’t phrase this paragraph this way or let’s move this –

[0:49:49.7] KM: Yeah, this is the way it really was.

[0:49:52.0] BC: Together, it was just a great project and we just had a lot of fun.

[0:49:55.9] KM: it’s still for sale right? Do you sell it on Amazon?

[0:49:58.2] BC: You know, I don’t know if it’s still on Amazon, I will give anybody who wants a free copy of the book.

[0:50:04.3] KM: I’ll put it on - aren’t you nice. I’ll put it on upyourbusiness.org and people can click on it somehow, I’ll put it somewhere where they can in touch with you.

[0:50:16.6] BC: Yeah.

[0:50:16.7] KM: Back then when you wrote that book, you had to print a million of them.

[0:50:19.7] BC: Yeah, well it wasn’t a million, I printed a lot of them.

[0:50:22.0] KM: Yeah, they don’t do that anymore. They’ve got digital printing.

[0:50:26.4] BC: Yeah, I’ve got paper books that I will hand somebody to read.

[0:50:30.5] KM: Okay, we got to go but last question that I don’t know and I need the answer to, where do you keep all your documents?

[0:50:36.4] BC: On a website it’s called Ignite, it’s a secure website and –

[0:50:40.6] KM: You put it all in the cloud?

[0:50:42.6] BC: I’ve been using it for years and feel very confident about how we…

[0:50:46.9] KM: Not in a bank deposit box? Not in a shoe box under the bed?

[0:50:49.2] BC: Certain documents at banks in a safe deposit at the bank but 95% can be scanned and kept in a dropbox or ignite or some secure website that’s on the cloud.

[0:51:03.3] KM: You think everybody should get a will and an IRA, is that your last words for the listeners today?

[0:51:07.9] BC: But without a question. If you’re under the age of 75, you should get an IRA.

[0:51:12.6] KM: under the age of 75. Never too late to start.

[0:51:17.6] BC: There you go.

[0:51:18.4] KM: Okay Barry, see what this is? You get this. That’s for cutting – do you smoke cigars?

[0:51:25.1] BC: Actually, my daughter asked me to smoke cigars with her when she was at the University of Arkansas when we celebrate. There’s a picture of us on the top of Mount acquire smoking cigars.

[0:51:35.1] KM: Well that’s for all the businesses you birthed, that’s for your business you birthed and for all the people you’ve helped.

[0:51:40.8] BC: thank you so much. I’m going to sit by the fire pit tonight and smoke the cigar.

[0:51:45.3] KM: With a little brandy. That came from the Humidor Room at Colonial One in Spirits and wine in West Market in Little Rock Arkansas. One of the great travesties of life is that wisdom is not transferrable but it can be shared. Thank you Barry for sharing your wisdom with us.

If you want to share your wisdom and get in the loop on twitter, it’s #sharewisdom and thank you to my guest today, the honest, conscientious and nationally recognized wealth manager Barry Corkern.

[0:52:13.8] BC: Thank you so much for having me, I really enjoyed it.

[0:52:15.6] KM: you did great.

[0:52:16.5] BC: Thank you.

[0:52:17.1] KM: I could tell you liked it. You’re a great mentor, you love mentoring people, don’t you?

[0:52:21.0] BC: Yes I do.

[0:52:21.6] KM: I know. Next week will be Margaret Eleby, president of Pulaski Technical College. She’s going to bring a student of hers that has graduated and started their own business so we’re going to get a fresh perspective on starting a business in today’s world.

Also, if you have a great entrepreneurial story you would like to share, I would love to hear from you. Send a brief bio and your contact info to.

[0:52:41.7] TB: Questions@upyourbusiness.org.

[0:52:44.1] KM: Someone will be in touch. Finally, to our listeners, thank you for spending time with me. If you think this program’s been about you, you're right but it’s also about me. Thank you for letting me fulfill my destiny. My hope today is that you’ve heard or learned something that’s been inspiring or enlightening and that it, whatever it is will help you up your business. Your independence or your life. I’m Kerry McCoy, keep it up.

[END OF INTERVIEW]

[0:55:49.9] TB: You’ve been listening to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. Want to hear today’s program again or want someone else to benefit from it? Jot this down. Within 48 hours the podcast will be available at flagandbanner.com. Click the tab labeled “Radio Show”, there you’ll find today’s segments with links to resources you heard discussed on this program. Kerry’s goal: to help you live the American Dream.

[END]

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