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Up In Your Business Home PageAbout Kerry McCoy

Kerry and her guest Michele Fincher talk traditional Chinese Medicine and more


Listen to this week's podcast to find out:
  • How to become certified in alternative medicine
  • Learn what cupping therapy is
  • Herbs, vitamins and minerals for various ailments
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Michele Fincher is the owner of Healing Points Acupuncture clinic. Fincher is dedicated to bringing relief and healthy vitality to individuals, children, and families of all ages throughout the Natural State via traditional Chinese Medicine. Fincher is a licensed acupuncturist and herbalist in Arkansas and California, and is a nationally certified Diplomat of Oriental Medicine. She earned her Masters of Science in Traditional Chinese Medicine from the American College of Traditional Chinese Medicine in San Francisco, CA, and received advanced clinical training in Hangzhou, China from the Zhejiang Medical University.

Fincher has been in private practice since 2009, formerly under the name Michele Joblin Acupuncture. Her midtown Little Rock clinic is housed in a quiet nurturing space for healing and offers acupuncture treatments, nutrition and lifestyle counseling, as well as, Chinese herbal medicine. The World Health Organization (WHO) and the National Institute for Health (NIH) recognize Acupuncture and Traditional Chinese Medicine for the treatment of many disorders.

Fincher’s full service Traditional Chinese Medicine clinic treats a wide variety of conditions, and offers customized treatment plans to fit the patient’s unique needs. Patients not only receive outstanding holistic medical care, but also learn methods in which they can begin to empower their own lives and play an active role in their health and well-being.

One of the more unique features of Fincher’s business is that she offers mobile treatment services at a patient’s home, office, nursing facility, hospice or other locations in the Little Rock area. 

Up In Your Business is a Radio Show by FlagandBanner.com

Behind The Scenes





[0:00:03.2] TB: Welcome to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. Be sure to stay tuned till the end of the show to hear how you can get a copy of this program and other helpful documents.


Now, it's time for Kerry McCoy to get all up in your business.




[0:00:17.3] KM: Thank you, Tim. I’m Kerry McCoy. Like Tim said, it's time for me to get up in your business. For the next hour, my guest, Michelle Fincher, owner of Healing Points Acupuncture clinic and I will be getting up in the business of whole body wellness. Michelle will share her story of entrepreneurship and teach us about her passion; Eastern medicine methods and acupuncture.


Through our storytelling today you'll hear how we maneuvered the path of independence and leadership in pursuit of our dreams. My business experience began over 40 years ago when I found that Arkansas Flag and Banner. During the last four decades Arkansas Flag and Banner has grown and morphed from door-to-door sales, to telemarketing, to mail-order and catalog sales, and now we rely heavily on the internet. Each change in sales strategy required a change in company thinking and procedures. My confidence, leadership knowledge, and my company grew. My initial $400 investment now produces nearly 4 million in annual sales.


Each week on this show you will hear candid conversations between me and my guest about real world experiences on a variety of businesses and topics I think you’ll find interesting. Running a business or organization is like so many things, it takes persistence, perseverance and patience. I worked part-time jobs for nine years before Arkansas Flag and Banner grew enough to support just me. It's now grown and expanded so much that to operate efficiently we require — Are you ready? A purchasing, manufacturing, graphic, shipping, technology, accounting, marketing sales and customer service department, plus a retail store. 25 people make their living from working at Arkansas Flag and Banner. No pressure.


I hope you'll take advantage of this unique opportunity to ask questions or share your experience. Before we start, I want to introduce the people at the table. We have Tim Bowen, our technician, who’ll be taking your calls and pushing the buttons. Say hello, Tim.


[0:02:15.0] TB: Hello, Tim.


[0:02:15.7] KM: My guest is Michelle Joplin Fincher, founder and owner of Healing Points Acupuncture Clinic. Michelle is a nationally certified diplomat of Oriental medicine and a licensed acupuncturist and herbalist in the state of Arkansas and California. She earned her masters of science in traditional Chinese medicine from the American College of Traditional Chinese Medicine in San Francisco, California and received her advanced clinical training from Zheijiang Medical University in Hangzhou, China. How did I do?


[0:02:49.0] MF: Pretty good.


[0:02:49.7] KM: Thank you. In 2009, Michelle Joplin Fincher opened her private practice as simply Michelle Joplin Acupuncture. Her company has since changed to a more descriptive and all-encompassing name; Healing Points Acupuncture Clinic. Her Little Rock, Arkansas clinic is housed in a quiet nurturing space for healing and offers acupuncture treatments, Chinese medicine, nutrition and lifestyle counseling.


In addition, she offers on-site treatment services to patients — This is unusual, In home, in office, in nursing facilities and or hospice care. Fincher is dedicated and passionate about bringing relief and healthy vitality to families, individuals, children and persons of all ages via traditional Chinese methods and medicine. It's an honor to welcome to the table my friend, the loving and caring, Michelle Fincher.


[0:03:45.5] MF: Thank you, Kerry.


[0:03:46.4] KM: What a fun topic. I’m a recent convert, and this is a calling. Not everyone wakes up one day and says, “I think I want to study Chinese medicine,” and becomes acupuncturist. Was there something that happened in your life that moved you in this direction or have you really always been interested in Eastern medicine?


[0:04:11.7] MF: Well, I've always been interested in herbalism and when I was young my grandmother would show me different herbs that were good for things out in her garden. She would grow certain herbs and just teach me a little bit about — Use aloe for burns, for example. That sort of piqued my interest in herbalism and then when I was in my early 20s, I was trying to quit smoking cigarettes and I saw a hypnotherapist and she suggested that I see and acupuncturist to help stop smoking. I went and it changed my whole life and I got really interested in. I quit smoking. I got much healthier and I started getting really interested in how acupuncture worked and what all it was good for and she couldn't answer all my questions and still give me the treatments. She said, “You’re just going to have to go to school,” and so that became what I wanted to do.


I lived in Arkansas at the time and there were no acupuncture schools anywhere in the South, and then I ended up moving to San Francisco, California and I went to a really great school there and studied. Then after studied for years, I went to China and studied as well. Now I'm back in Arkansas. I had a practice in San Francisco for a couple years and then almost exactly to the date I’ve moved back to Arkansas five years ago. I think actually today, on July 7th, five years ago.


[0:05:48.4] KM: When you are in California, I guess you moved out there because of a job opportunity for your husband.


[0:05:53.8] MF: Yes. Okay. You were like, “How fortuitous? I’m going to study.”


[0:05:59.3] MF: Yes.


[0:06:01.7] KM: Kind of a ha-ha moments. Funny how life does it for you. Then while you were out there, how did you get to China?


[0:06:10.4] MF: My school that I studied with had a reciprocal agreement with the school in Hangzhou, China. Part of that agreement, you could go and do a study abroad program. I had almost finished school prior to going to China. I went and studied in China for almost three months at a hospital and different clinics with different doctors there to learn more about herbalism and just the actual traditional Chinese medicine practices; acupuncture, and different techniques.


[0:06:44.5] KM: Is it true that in China they perform surgery without anesthetics and they use acupuncture and cut people open?


[0:06:53.6] MF: They do. They use anesthetic through the acupuncture.


[0:06:57.1] KM: What does that mean?


[0:06:57.8] MF: They’re inserting acupuncture needles into the patient. Oftentimes, they’ll hook them to up what we call the electro-stimulation machine so they don't have to manually manipulate the needles because you couldn't do that that fast while someone's in surgery with your hand. They hook it up to this electro-stimulation machine and the different points where they put the needles on the body help to anesthetize certain areas so that they can perform surgery.


It's really beneficial because the patients don't have the after effects of anesthesia when they wake up. They recover really quickly and they felt great after surgery, typically.


[0:07:36.0] KM: I though you said they used the two in conjunction.


[0:07:37.5] MF: No. They used the needles in place of the anesthesia.


[0:07:41.2] KM: You mean they completely use a needle with what kind of a machine? Electro —


[0:07:46.9] MF: Sometimes they use just the needles. Sometimes depending on if they’re going to do open heart surgery or something like that, they’ll use an electro-stimulation machine.


[0:07:56.2] KM: They use an electro-stimulation machine attached to the needles in surgery to perform —


[0:08:04.4] MF: Yes, to perform surgery so that the patient doesn't have to be actually anesthetized with medication.


[0:08:10.6] KM: They’re doing heart surgery.


[0:08:12.0] MF: Sometimes they do heart surgery. They can do Caesarian deliveries, appendix removal, appendectomy. All kinds of —


[0:08:19.8] KM: You know, I saw this on YouTube and I thought it was a hoax.


[0:08:22.4] MF: It’s true.


[0:08:22.7] KM: Wouldn't it be nice to have your C-section like that? Because the medicine that they give you a C-section has a horrible 30-day side effect while, because could do a spinal tap and then the —


[0:08:33.6] MF: Yeah, not so comfortable.


[0:08:34.6] KM: No. Then they have to wait for, I think —I'm not sure what happens exactly, but they have to wait while the spine gets the fluid back and during those 30 days, it get its fluid back. You have extreme headaches.


[0:08:46.4] MF: That’s not so great.


[0:08:47.3] KM: I don’t know if they’re still doing it that way.


[0:08:47.7] MF: Yes. The acupuncture as your anesthesia, you wouldn’t have headaches. You’d get side benefit instead of side effect that.


[0:08:54.1] KM: Did you always work for yourself or did you work in the field under somebody and then decided to go into business for yourself?


[0:09:00.6] MF: No. I've always been in business for myself. When I first started in San Francisco, the cost of rentals is really is expensive, much more so than in Arkansas. I rented a room from someone that already had an established clinic, but I've always worked for myself.


[0:09:17.3] KM: Wow! On your website, which I found so interesting and, really, it was inspiring. It just gives you a lot of hope when you read it. It says the aim of Chinese medicine is to treat the whole person and restore balance between the physical, emotional, and spiritual aspects of the individual. I want to take a break now, and when we come back I want to talk about what that means.


When we come back, my guest, Michelle Fincher, is going to educate us on the benefit of acupuncture, Chinese medicine, cupping, moxibustion, and facial rejuvenation. 


You’re listening to Up In Your Business with me, Kerry McCoy. I’m speaking today with the license acupuncturist and certified Chinese herbalist; Michelle Fincher, owner of the Healing Points Acupuncture Clinic in Little Rock, Arkansas. Michelle, before the break, we mentioned your website says the aim of Chinese medicine is to treat the whole person and restore balance between the physical, emotional and spiritual aspects of the individual. Can you explain what that means and your technique for, first, analyzing and individualizing your client’s care?


[0:10:44.5] MF: The Chinese medicine, we really like to look at everything from a holistic point of view. If you're having sleep issues, for example, we want to know are you also may be having some digestive issues or is there any stress going on in your life that could be contributing to the sleep issues. We don't just look at one piece of it. We always want to try to get to the root of the problem, and the root of the problem usually includes mind, body, and spirit. Not just one part or the other. We’re always trying to, in Chinese terms, balance the yin and yang in someone. When you're out of balance, then that causes this ease which if that goes on long enough it turns into a reel disease. We want to look at all three of those parts and see if there's something going wrong in one of them to set that back in balance.


Chinese medicine at its best is a preventative medicine, and so when we see one thing go wrong we look two or three steps ahead and see what may go wrong and we start protecting the body from that happening.


[0:11:55.9] KM: And two or three steps behind.


[0:11:57.7] MF: And two or three steps behind. You have to go up and clean up and get down to the root of the issue as well.


[0:12:03.0] KM: Because some people carry their stress on their shoulders.


[0:12:05.0] MF: Exactly.


[0:12:05.3] KM: Some people carry stress in their chest —


[0:12:08.8] MF: Or stomach aches, or back ache. Yeah.


[0:12:13.1] KM: When you talk about mind, body, and spirit, we know what mind means. We know what body means, and spirit doesn't necessarily mean organized religion. It means looking at a flower and seeing a flower. Looking at a person and seeing a person. When you talk to —


[0:12:29.0] MF: What that means to me in terms as far as Chinese medicine, that means you, yourself, and your consciousness. That can be any word you choose. You can call it your higher power, whatever you want. For Chinese medicine, we call it shen, or spirit. Each person comes into this world with the shen, with the spirit. It's kind of like a spark that they have.


We do facial diagnosis sometimes and we can see is someone have a positive spirit or their eyes are going to be bright and shining. Their cheeks are going to be kind of pinky flushed. They look good and healthy. If someone has poor shen, or a poor spirit, their eyes might be a little dull. They might be a little sallow looking. They might talk really quietly and hang their head low. Through all the different diagnostic techniques that we use, that’s one of them. We look at the person's spirit.


The acupuncture or the herbal medicine will help rebalance that for that person if it is someone that’s having some depression or some poor spirit kind of ailments.


[0:13:42.8] KM: Or life trials. We all have that.


[0:13:42.8] MF: That definitely take its toll on you and cause stress which can diminish your spirit.


[0:13:51.2] KM: Let’s talk about acupuncture. I’m recent convert I said in the last segment, and it really is. They’re worldly. There's really nothing to describe it. It seems like a lot of it is about blood circulation, the flow. I saw on your website, you called it the flow of chi.


[0:14:08.4] MF: Chi. Mm-hmm. We call it chi, or your life force, or your energy.


[0:14:13.4] KM: Is that kind of what you were just talking about?


[0:14:15.5] MF: A little bit. It’s a little bit different. The chi is actually — In Chinese medicine we have your chi that you come into the world with, you're born with. This table has chi, or energy. Everything in Chinese — Traditional Chinese, they attribute chi to all sorts of different items, living and nonliving.


[0:14:38.8] KM: I had an artist on here who said he paints energy and that he sees energy from everything, and we’re talking about a table, color —


[0:14:45.2] MF: Right, and that’s what chi is.


[0:14:47.3] KM: He just says I see energy and everything I do and I try to paint energy. Is it true that Eastern culture — I’ve already asked you about the surgery, but let’s talk about how acupuncture works and the benefits. It seems like everything talks about promoting circulation.


[0:15:05.4] MF: It does. For example, if you have back pain. There's going to be — We call it stasis, or stagnation. If you're having pain, there's some kind of stagnation going on, and so we insert the needles into different points that are going to benefit the back and allow the chi, the energy, to start flowing a little more readily easily which that helps reduce inflammation, brings new circulation to the area and then eliminates the pain for the person.


[0:15:36.5] KM: It reduces the inflammation. It improves the —


[0:15:40.3] MF: Improves circulation.


[0:15:42.0] KM: You said on your website, metabolism. How do you say that?


[0:15:46.6] MF: Metabolic.


[0:15:47.1] KM: What does that mean exactly?


[0:15:49.2] MF: It enhances different metabolic processes that are going on internally in your body. The acupuncture allows your body to function at the optimal level.


[0:16:01.0] KM: It restores proper functioning to all your body systems.


[0:16:04.8] MF: Yeah, your digestive system, your circulatory system, your nervous system, those kind of thing.


[0:16:11.6] KM: Everybody seems to have digestive system problems these days. I don't know if it’s our lifestyle. I don’t know if it’s our diet. I don’t know if it’s the pace at which we all are leaving these days. In Chinese medicine, everything is connected, so the whole body is considered in a treatment. The needles are delicate and are placed in various parts of the body to help naturally correct these imbalances that you just called negative energy, I guess. How do you pick exactly where to put them? You look at their face —


[0:16:45.1] MF: Well, we do. Yeah, we have four different diagnostic tool mainly that we use. We look, listen, we ask questions of the person. We palpate their pulse, maybe palpate their abdomen if it’s a digestive issue and then we also look at the tongue. Sometimes we smell different smells coming off of people mean different things to us. If I have a new patient coming in, I'm always in a check their pulse. I’m always going to check their tongue and did those correspond to the signs and symptoms that they're experiencing, that they’re coming in for. Those give me more information about where to place the needles best for that person.


Acupuncture is really great because it's very tailored to the individual person. I might have five people come in for colitis, or digestive disorder, acid reflux. One of them might be having insomnia. The other one might be having back pain. The other one might be having knee pain. I take all of that into account and try to tailor that person’s treatment particularly to them to incorporate some of the insomnia issues as well as the digestive issues. It's not a one-size-fits-all like a lot of Western medicine is for acid reflux.


[0:18:04.8] KM: Absolutely. How novel to go in to see somebody and they actually look and listen to you.


[0:18:12.0] MF: We ask a lot of questions.


[0:18:13.5] KM: I remember when I came in, you took my pulse and you know it, you’re holding my wrist and after a minute I was like, “What are you doing?” You were like, “Taking your pulse.” I was just standing there with you holding my hand. You're very, very clever, the way you do that. It's both safe and effective.


[0:18:28.4] MF: It's very effective. It’s extremely safe. We use all pre-sterilize and medically great stainless steel needle, surgical steel needles and they're all disposed of. One time use only needles, and they're very thin. The needles that I use are probably as thin as a hair, or cat whisker or something. They’re extremely thin.


[0:18:52.1] KM: I was concerned about it hurting.


[0:18:54.6] MF: Yes. Usually, it doesn't.


[0:18:56.0] KM: Unless it’s in your hands.


[0:18:57.4] MF: Unless it’s in your hands, yeah.


[0:18:58.4] KM: You did my hands and you’re like, “Now, this might hurt.”


[0:19:01.0] MF: There are some areas that just parts of the body that don’t have as much meat on them. There they're typically a little more sensitive. Any point below the elbows and the knees tend to be a little more sensitive.


[0:19:11.5] KM: Between your toes.


[0:19:12.8] MF: Between your toes can be a little — You’re going to feel the needle going in.


[0:19:18.1] KM: For our listeners, if they come to see you, that you have got to put the one in the top of their head. Du 20. That’s what we call the point.


[0:19:26.6] KM: Can you get that one? That one is so relaxing. Can you just get that one and learn to do it yourself and walk around with that in the top of your head?


[0:19:35.4] MF: No. You need a lot of training before you start sticking needles in yourself.


[0:19:40.1] KM: You can’t just tell me it's right here and stick it in I’ll look in a mirror and I just stick it in, because that is my favorite one. It's so relaxing.


[0:19:47.5] MF: You’re just going to have to push your fingers on it, yeah.


[0:19:50.5] KM: Could you teach me?


[0:19:52.4] MF: I can show you where the point is, but —


[0:19:54.0] KM: And sell me some needles.


[0:19:55.5] MF: No. I can't do that, unfortunately.


[0:19:58.0] KM: I’m always looking for a shortcut, aren’t I? Or a way to get high.


[0:20:01.4] MF: You just have to come in and see me.


[0:20:02.9] KM: Or a way to get high. I just want to do it in my house.


[0:20:06.6] MF: Very relaxing. That point is very relaxing.


[0:20:09.0] KM: Very relaxing. Do you do that to everybody that comes in?


[0:20:11.5] MF: I don't, because it all depends on what that person needs that particular day.


[0:20:17.3] KM: Don't ever not do that one to me.


[0:20:19.7] MF: A lot of people love it, but a lot of people, they don't want needles in their head. I think they feel afraid of that. Some people do.


[0:20:29.6] KM: How long did you fix last? You quit smoking. How many times did you have to do it to quit smoking?


[0:20:34.3] MF: I actually had a pretty quick turnaround. I had really been trying extremely hard to quit smoking, and I think I got about three treatment and I was able to quit. I took herbs as well with it, but I was ready. I really, really wanted to quit smoking.


[0:20:52.7] KM: That's half the battle.


[0:20:53.9] MF: That's a lot of it. I help people quit smoking all the time, but you have to be really dedicated to it and ready to change your lifestyle.


[0:21:03.3] KM: How old were you when you quit?


[0:21:05.2] MF: I was 22, 23, maybe.


[0:21:10.5] KM: That’s young.


[0:21:11.5] MF: Early 20s.


[0:21:12.2] KM: When you’re 40 and you're trying to quit, it's a lifetime of —


[0:21:16.5] MF: I had smoked since I was a teenager and I just — Unhealthy and gross and I was ready to quit.


[0:21:24.8] KM: How long do the effects last? For me, they seemed to last like 24 to 48 hours.


[0:21:32.0] MF: Yeah, that depends on the condition. It depends on the condition you're treating, the person's age. Any other related health issues they might be having. Sometimes the effect of a treatment, they tend to build cumulatively, like you're building a foundation and the treatments kind of stack on each other and then they tend to last longer and longer.


Ideally, my goal is to get someone completely healed, feeling better out the door and then have them come maybe four times a year for maintenance as the seasons change or if they have a cold or something like that comes up over the winter time, then they come in for that to get help with that kind of stuff.


[0:22:17.3] KM: If you were going to recommend to somebody to come in, how would you do it?


[0:22:20.9] MF: If they wanted to come — It really depends what they're coming for. If I have someone that's in an extreme amount of pain, then I like to see them maybe two times a week for the first couple or weeks. Maybe two or three weeks to get them out of pain and then start spreading the treatments out once a week, once every two weeks, once every three weeks so that they're holding that treatment longer.


[0:22:45.2] KM: You do the acupuncture, and then before they leave you make suggestions on Chinese medicine.


[0:22:49.9] MF: Just different lifestyle changes, diet, dietary issues, things like that. When we start spacing the treatments out — Or even before, sometimes some conditions need herbal medicines, more of an internal treatment.


[0:23:04.9] KM: Before we go to break, I want talk about this facial acupuncture that I read on your website. You said that it reduces the signs of aging from within.


[0:23:14.9] MF: Because we don't just put the needles in the face just to smooth out the wrinkles or erase fine lines, but we also put needles in for the different body points to boost their constitution and that way their healing, while they're getting the acupuncture facial, they’re still also getting different points in the body that help the body promote balance better.


[0:23:42.3] KM: It says, again, it creates local circulation, stimulates collagen and elastin.


[0:23:48.6] MF: For the facial acupuncture, yes.


[0:23:50.4] KM:  That it strengthens the immune system which our skin is an essential part of. I never thought about that.


[0:23:56.3] MF: That is your largest organ you have, your skin. You want to take care of that every day.


[0:24:02.5] KM: That was kind of a school yard joke. What’s your biggest organ? Nobody ever thought —


[0:24:08.9] MF: Nobody said skin.


[0:24:09.9] KM: Nobody thought it was skin, and it is true. You can tell by looking at somebody’s face that they look sick —


[0:24:19.3] MF: Or not.


[0:24:19.7] KM: They don't. Their skin is a really reflection of how they feel inside.


[0:24:26.0] MF: And what you eat. What you’re putting in your body is going to reflect on the outside as well, that's why we incorporate dietary and nutrition recommendations.


[0:24:37.3] KM: Yeah. Your website talks about this person's inner strength and beauty and radiance that I think comes from this holistic approach of acupuncture and wellness diet, and life coaching I think that you do when you see the person as a whole. I think this is a great place to take a break.


When we come back, our guest, Michelle Fincher, will share her knowledge of Chinese medicine and explain the healing powers of the techniques; cupping and moxibustion. Lastly, she’ll talk about studying Eastern medicine as a career.


You’re listening to Up In Your Business with me, Kerry McCoy. I’m speaking today with a licensed acupuncturist and certifies Chinese herbalist, Michelle Fincher, owner of Healing Points Acupuncture Clinic. Cupping, let’s talk about cupping. I think I’ve seen the markings of this on the shoulders and backs of professional athletes on TV. Is that true [inaudible 0:25:41.9]?


[0:25:42.9] MF: Yes, you probably have. It got pretty famous the last go round of the Olympics. Michael Phelps was using it at swimming to loosen up his shoulders, things like that. It got a lot of recognition in a positive way.


[0:25:57.8] KM: Where you already doing it?


[0:25:58.9] MF: I was already doing it, yup.


[0:26:00.7] KM: It relieves soreness and tense muscles.


[0:26:03.4] MF: Yes, and it's it said designed to stimulate blood flow.


[0:26:07.6] KM: Again.


[0:26:08.7] MF: Again, yes. We’re all about the flow in Chinese medicine. Yeah. The cups help relieve stiff, sore, achy muscles. They bring the blood to the area, circulate that and usually you get a lot of pain relief. I don't know if he had pain or not or was just using it for performance enhancement for the Olympics, but I use cupping sometimes on children when they catch cold. I'll put cups on them and draw out the cold right away so they don't get sicker and sicker. I’ll use cups for back pain, muscle aches, things like that. It’s really great the things like that.


[0:26:51.3] KM: It says it sedates the nervous system. I don’t know. We all need our nervous systems sedated a little bit. We could all use that. You already hit on it. It’s good for the common cold and coughs. You put it on your chest?


[0:27:04.8] MF: You can put it on your chest. You put it on — We have lung points along the back. It’s typically where it’s placed.


[0:27:11.4] KM: Its beneficial for a person with asthma. Have you ever used it there?


[0:27:15.1] MF: Yes. It can help — When you're using it for asthma, asthma is something you don't want to mess around with. If you've got asthma, real asthma, you're having breathing problems. You definitely don't want to just rely on cups to help your asthma, but cupping can definitely help if you're having open up your lungs, help you breathe a little deeper, get any of that congestion kind of through the lungs and just improve your overall immune system.


I don’t necessarily use it for asthma. I typically will use herbs and acupuncture more for asthma more than the cupping, but if someone was really struggling, having a recent asthma attack, you can use the moving cups and open the lung area really, really well with that.


[0:28:06.6] KM: I want to come in and do all of these things.


[0:28:08.9] MF: Well, come on.


[0:28:09.8] KM: Okay.


[0:28:10.4] MF: Yeah, we’ll give you all the different modalities.


[0:28:13.5] KM: Modalities. There’s a new word for me. You also have something on your website that I never heard of; moxibustion.


[0:28:22.3] MF: Moxibustion, or we call it — Yeah, I call it moxa just because it’s shorter. It is herb. It’s a dried herb. It’s mugwort.


[0:28:32.5] KM: It sounds like a Harry Potter.


[0:28:35.7] MF: It does. It looks like. You burn it. You burn the herb. Sometimes it’s in a little stick, almost like a incense stick. Looks like a cigar and you burn that over the actual acupuncture points. You can light it over a needle. You can put the loose moxa on top of the acupuncture needle and it will burn down and warm internally into the point and or you can do the moxa directly on the skin where you burn over a point. Sometimes we do the indirect moxa which is like cigar moxa stick.


[0:29:11.3] KM: It’s heated, and you use stainless needles.


[0:29:13.1] MF: It’s an herb and it comes lose, dried herb, a mugwort, and it's like a loose floss and you can wrap it around the top of a needle and then you ignite it.


[0:29:24.4] KM: The needle, because it’s stainless steel, heats up and goes into your skin. That doesn’t seem like that would get the herb in there through a stainless steel needle.


[0:29:31.8] MF: No. The herb warms the body.


[0:29:35.2] KM: Here’s the caller again. Let’s try it again. Hello caller, you’re listening to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. I’m here with Michelle Jopin. Have you got a question for either of us?


[0:29:44.1] C1: Yes, I had a question for Michelle.


[0:29:45.7] KM: Sure.


[0:29:47.9] C1: I deal with chronic pain, and to be quite honest I’m just sick of the cycle of pain relievers and pharmaceuticals and narcotics and I would just like to hear a little bit more about how acupuncture, do we use that as a healthy alternative, and a non-chemical, and a non-invasive alternative to help relieve some of those issues, and I’m going to hang up and listen.


[0:30:10.7] KM: Okay. Thank you, caller.


[0:30:11.8] MF: Thank you, caller. A very good question, thank you for asking. Acupuncture, recently has been a lot of — There have been a lot of research studies showing that acupuncture can be beneficial for back pain, for example. Everybody probably knows we've been having an opioid crisis here in America, and so acupuncture is being used in place of that in a lot of places that they’ve been doing research on to look at the effectiveness of it.


Acupuncture and herbal medicine are all natural and you tend to get side benefits instead of side effects like you might with some of the heavier painkillers. You’re are able to still do your daily functions. You're not sedated from the herbal medicine or from the acupuncture, so you're still able to live your day-to-day life, go to work, get some pain relief and you're not going to get constipation or anything like that that you might get from an opioid side effect.


[0:31:13.1] KM: Incapacity to work. I’ve had employees that were in severe pain and had to take opioids, but they ended up not being able to do their job.


[0:31:19.8] MF: But then they can’t work. Yeah, because they were on the medications and their mind is not clear.


[0:31:24.6] KM: Their mistake ratio is high and they're tired.


[0:31:30.1] MF: And you’re not going to get addicted do it.


[0:31:32.2] KM: I do want to tell our caller and our listeners that I did come in for you for pain in my foot, I think it was, or hand. I can’t remember which one. It worked for a day or two and then it would start to come back.


[0:31:45.9] MF: Then you have to come back again.


[0:31:48.4] KM: How much does it cost for each session?


[0:31:49.8] MF: The initial visit is 125 and follow-up visits are $75.


[0:31:55.4] KM: Does insurance pay for it?


[0:31:57.2] MF: Some insurance companies have acupuncture benefits. I do not take insurance here in Arkansas, but I give people, it's called a super bill. If they have an insurance company the will give them acupuncture benefit, I give them a super bill slip and they can get reimbursed from their insurance company.


[0:32:18.6] KM: I wonder if of Obamacare takes —


[0:32:20.3] MF: Some states Obamacare does take acupuncture, like in California for example. In Arkansas, it does not. When Obamacare started, you were able to opt in for acupuncture, benefits are not. Some states did opt in and some states did. Actually, just yesterday, I believe it was in Ohio, they will start giving acupuncture benefits for Medicaid patients.


[0:32:44.4] KM: It’s a great way to help move people off of pain medicine and into this, because you can't come in. I don't want people to have unrealistic expectations. You can’t come in and have a relief instantly.


[0:32:54.9] MF: Not. It's not always an instant relieve, because acupuncture is a process. It is not a magic bullet and —


[0:33:01.6] KM: It’s not cheap. Any healthcare is not cheap.


[0:33:03.9] MF: It’s not cheap. In my case, it's going to be an out-of-pocket expense because I just haven't found that there are enough patients with insurance coverage here in Arkansas in order for me to take insurance.


[0:33:21.0] KM: They’re going to have to start seeing this more —Chinese medicine has been around 3,000 years.


[0:33:26.5] MF: At least. Maybe 3 to 5,000 years. Yes.


[0:33:29.6] KM: How long has Western medicine been around?


[0:33:31.1] MF: Yeah, not that long. A couple of hundred. 


[0:33:32.3] KM: Yeah. It’s really tried and true, and so we really need to start looking — The industry, the medical industry is out of control and it’s —


[0:33:41.8] MF: Well, I think more and more insurance companies are starting to see the benefits especially with all this opioid painkiller crisis lately. That's getting more recognition, the benefits of acupuncture. Patients are demanding that.


[0:33:56.1] KM: Is moxibustion for pain too?


[0:33:58.4] MF: Moxibution can be for pain. It’s for a variety of different things. Sometimes we use Moxibustion to turn a breech baby.


[0:34:10.5] KM: Are you kidding me?


[0:34:11.0] MF: It can be as random as that. Yeah. 


[0:34:13.5] KM: I’m still having a hard time grasping how it goes from being burned in the room on a needle into your system and has any kind of benefits.


[0:34:23.3] MF: The herb itself has a really deep penetrating warming effect, and that's how it goes into your — Once you heat it up.


[0:34:32.4] KM: But it’s not a poultice.


[0:34:34.5] MF: No, it's not a poultice necessarily. You can make it into a poultice. It's very adaptable. It’s a different —


[0:34:40.7] KM: Is it aromatic?


[0:34:41.9] MF: Yeah, it’s very aromatic, and when it burned over the point, it’s definitely aromatic. The warming effect which is what’s helping to heal the body.


[0:34:54.8] KM: I think people also underestimate the power of an ice bath for inflammation.


[0:35:00.5] MF: In Chinese medicine we really recommend heat over ice, because, ice long-term will stagnate your healing. It feels great when you —


[0:35:11.0] KM: It reduces inflammation visibly.


[0:35:13.1] MF: It does reduce inflammation visibly and you're numb, so you're out of pain. Long-term, the ice contracts and no circulation will get through the tissue. Later on, you’re going to be in more pain.


[0:35:24.9] KM: Should you alternate ice and heat?


[0:35:27.1] MF: We like to do that, especially if you have an acute injury, then we alternate ice and heat. Long-term, a chronic injury, we recommend warmer things like a a heat pack or a hot bath,things like that, versus like an ice pack.


[0:35:43.7] KM: Western medicine has often been accused of treating symptoms rather than the causes and having a uniform treatment in medicine dosage for everyone, the same dosage for me will be the same dosage for a 250 pound man, but Chinese medicine subscribed to treating the whole body and prescribes treatments and medicines based on your individuality. Is that a good way to say?


[0:36:05.2] MF: I think, yeah, because we really look at what's going on with you in particular at that moment in time and try to adapt the herbal medicine treatments to that, your particular needs, and we really try to get at the root of the problem, not just a band-aid over the symptoms.


[0:36:24.1] KM: By balancing the body, the mind, and the spirit. Vitamins get a bad rep and can sometimes cause harm. What do you have to say to that? Sometimes I think people think they're trying to do the right thing. We can go to the drugstore and buy vitamins and we all want to be healthier, but I think sometimes your body is not digesting all of the vitamins that you're putting in. Maybe you're using too many are not properly — Not the vitamin that’s going to be adequate for your needs, and so you're just wasting that. Your body can't process.


[0:36:55.5] KM: Or you go online and you self-treat.


[0:36:59.5] MF: Right.


[0:37:00.6] KM: And you're not really believing the hype. Fake facts.


[0:37:04.8] MF: And you’re not trained to do that. If you see a nutritionist that's been trained in vitamin, supplements, things like that, or if you see someone like me that's been trained in Chinese herbal medicine, then we can really tailor those treatments to fit your needs better.


[0:37:22.1] KM: Let’s talk about our geriatric assistance today. There is no other age group that is routinely overmedicated as the elder, but you don't want them to stop their Western medicine.


[0:37:32.3] MF: No, definitely. Sometimes they want to stop, the doctor wants them to stop, and they're trying to titrate down certain medications if they are taken too high of a dose or something like that, then I can help them through acupuncture in alleviating some of the symptoms that they're having. Same for the painkillers, for example. They’re on too many painkillers. The doctor wants them to take four a day and they're taking 12 day. That acupuncture can help them to stay out of pain, keep the meds at a lower dose and they may still need some kind of pain medication but they're not going to have to take so many and that way they're able to go to work or function in their life, not have side effects.


[0:38:19.4] KM: This is a great place to take a break, and we’re going to take a very short break. When we come, our guest, Michelle Fincher, will share the one thing she thinks all of us can do to get started on a life of mental, spiritual, and physical balance and shall talk about the business of acupuncture and give advice to those who think they may want to pursue a career in Eastern methods and medicines.


You’re listening to Up In Your Business with me, Kerry McCoy. I’m speaking today with the licensed acupuncturist and certified Chinese herbalist, Michelle Fincher, owner of Healing Points Acupuncture Clinic. That was a great song for you, Michelle. If you have questions for me or my guest, you may email us for an off-air answer. We run out of time for phone calls. Send your email to —


[0:39:13.6] TB: Questions@yourbusiness.org.


[0:39:16.4] KM: Or you can tweet me a question at ask Carrie McCoy, and if you want to share it, we’re using the #chinesemedicine. Life coaching, Michelle, this is an overused term. Many lifestyle recommendations are very simple and easy to implement. If you could make only one recommendation for our listeners today, what would it be?


[0:39:39.1] MF: Start taking charge of your own health.


[0:39:41.8] KM: Wow! Imagine that.


[0:39:44.1] MF: What’s what I would recommend, take part in your health. Question, learn, learn about anything. If you have a certain condition, find out as much information as you can and ask the expert, ask their opinions. Find out certain different treatment modalities. I typically see people at the end of their rope when they've tried everything else, they're willing to let someone stick needles in them and try acupuncture. I think there are a lot of different ways to get healthy and it doesn't just always have to involve go to the doctor and get medication. You want to stay healthy and prevent disease, and I think if you start participating in your own health, then you’re on the road to that.


[0:40:30.9] KM: You say on your website health is achieved when our bodies are in balance mentally, spiritually and physically. Wellness is not simply the absence of disease. think that's exactly what you're saying right there.


I do believe that, and I've been guilty of this, just wanting to go to the doctor and getting a quick fix.


[0:40:50.5] MF: Yeah. We want somebody else to fix our problems, but we need to be in charge of ourselves.


[0:40:54.2] KM: Many times, the doctors will say, “You need exercise,” or “You need to lose some weight,” or you need —


[0:41:01.1] MF: Eat better. Sleep longer. Yeah.


[0:41:04.5] KM: We don’t do it. It’s hard to hold ourselves our own selves accountable.


[0:41:09.2] MF: It is. That’s hard for everybody, but I think it's very important to take part in your own health and your own wellness because our bodies want to go to the place of health if we assist that. What you put in shows up on the outside, and also how you feel.


[0:41:29.8] KM: I am amazed at how much our body wants to be well. It will repair itself and repair itself and repair itself and repair —


[0:41:33.9] MF: Right. Bodies are amazing things.


[0:41:35.8] KM: They really are. How do you suggest to a listener interested in pursuing a career in Chinese medicine to begin?


[0:41:42.6] MF: I would say read everything you can about it. Make sure it's something that you're really interested in. There are a lot of great colleges now that offer acupuncture programs or traditional Chinese medicine programs. We have many on the West Coast, many on the East Coast. We’re starting to get some in the Midwest and few here and there in the South as well.


[0:42:04.6] KM: How do you know a good school?


[0:42:05.8] MF: You want to make sure they're credited. You want to kind of compare and contrast and see what all they’re going to be training you in. Is that going to meet your needs to —


[0:42:15.9] KM: Is it a four year?


[0:42:16.9] MF: My program was a four year master’s program and there are also doctoral programs after the that are another couple of years, and a further study. Typically, it's a 3-1/2 to four year program.


[0:42:31.9] KM: You studied abroad. I think that would be something. If I was wanting to get into this medicine, I would want to make sure the college that I had a study abroad program.


[0:42:39.1] MF: Right. You can study abroad with or without that. You can go to China and study through some of their universities on your own, but it's a lot easier when you can get some college credit for it or you your college has a sister college in China that makes it a little bit easier for you.


[0:42:58.5] KM: Being an American speaking English, was that a hindrance?


[0:43:00.8] MF: Yeah. It was pretty challenging. I am tall and have blonde hair, so I stuck out and anywhere and everywhere I went I had translator to help with all the educational teaching part of it and in the clinic and stuff.


[0:43:17.8] KM: It’s not a romantic language. They don't even use the same characters. How did you study your books? How did your teachers talk to you?


[0:43:24.9] KM: Via translators. I studied some Chinese when I was in school, nursery school, kindergarten level. It was quite challenging. By the time, I left I could order herbs, I could get food. I could get around in the taxies.


[0:43:38.3] KM: You could say ni hao.


[0:43:39.4] MF: I could say ni hao. It’s like ni hao.


[0:43:43.4] KM: Oh, it is? Oh! See, I don’t even know how to say that. Do you offer long distance consulting to clients?


[0:43:50.2] MF: I do, but typically it needs to be a patient that I've already seen before, because we rely on palpation and visual. If I've seen someone before, then I can do some distance with them. I do remote visits for people that are maybe shut-ins or in their retirement homes or things like that. I can go to their and do sort of a mobile acupuncture visit for them if they can't come into my office.


[0:44:19.5] KM: You’re talking about they’re not being any Midwest schools. I think I see an opportunity for you.


[0:44:25.1] MF: There are some Midwest schools. They're just not as many as there are on the West Coast and East Coast. There some schools in Colorado and Chicago being.


[0:44:34.7] KM: Being the opportunist that I am, I’m like, “There’s something for you to do, Michelle.”


[0:44:39.1] MF: That might be a good opportunity, because they’re very limited in the south.


[0:44:43.5] KM: Yeah, and the need is huge. We already talked about what average prices for an acupuncture session with you, which is $125 to get set up and $75 —


[0:44:54.4] MF: Follow up visits.


[0:44:55.3] KM: For thereafter, and there are many myths about acupuncture. Is there any you’d like to dispel?


[0:44:55.3] MF: It doesn’t hurt. It’s pretty painless. It’s very relaxing. Most of my patients fall asleep, feel very comfortable.


[0:45:08.1] KM: It lasts an hour, usually.


[0:45:09.5] MF: Yeah, usually the treatments are around an hour.


[0:45:13.3] KM: They feel like 5 minutes.


[0:45:14.3] MF:  Sometimes it feels like five minutes. Sometimes it feels like three hours. Sometimes I come back in the room to take the needles out and they say, “How long you been gone. I think I have slept all night.” Sometimes people are so relaxed, or sometimes it will go by just quick.


[0:45:14.3] KM: Yes. I never believe it's been an hour when I do it.


[0:45:34.0] MF: It’s very safe. It’s all-natural. It’s very safe, so I think some people are afraid because you’re using needles. People have a phobia of needles, but they're so fine, like little filament. They’re not like real needles.


[0:45:46.3] KM: Right. You got a website. How do people get in touch with you and how do people begin?


[0:45:50.6] MF: You can reach me. My office number is 501-221-1120, or you can check out my website, healingpointsarkansas.com.


[0:46:01.1] KM: We’ll have all of that on Arkansas Flag and Banner’s upside under Up In Your Business and they can — healingpointsarkansas.com. You’ve got an event coming out.


[0:46:11.4] MF: I’ve got an event that I like to do work with other local business, Healing Points Arkansas Acupuncture clinic will be doing an event with Arkansas Yoga Collective and Ava Bella Day Spa, Friday, August 25th, and it’s going to be 6:30 to 9 PM on a Friday night and the event will be $90 and we’ll be doing some face mapping, face yoga. There’ll be a guided meditation and some acupuncture facial points and then we’ll have some food and cocktails.


[0:46:44.9] KM: How many people are allowed? What’s the limit?


[0:46:47.9] MF: it’s going to be limited. Yeah, it's going to be a limited event. I think we’re capping the number at 25. I’m not exactly sure if it's 20, 25. Definitely, the space will be limited because of —


[0:47:01.0] KM: Yeah, you can only do the so much. How many hours is it going to take?


[0:47:03.1] MF: It’s going to be from 6:30 to 9.


[0:47:06.4] KM: I’m sorry. You already said that. Is it going to be your location or hers?


[0:47:08.1] MF: It will be at the Arkansas Yoga Collective. Yeah, which yoga which is on the right of at Cantrell.


[0:47:13.4] KM: Will this be on your website?


[0:47:15.3] MF: This will be on my website and there will be a flyer coming out on my Facebook page and for Healing Points Accenture or you could email me through my website and I can give you more information.


[0:47:27.8] KM: All of that will be available on Up In Your Business tab at Arkansas Flag and Banner. Thank you, Michelle. What a joy you are to have on today.


[0:47:34.2] MF: Thank you so much, Kerry. I appreciate you having me on.


[0:47:37.0] KM: You're so welcome. This is when I usually give a cigar to my guests for birthing a business, but a cigar seems kind of counter-productive to give to a nutritionist. You might even go to hell if you do that. Where is that flag I have for her? What’s the name of this flag?


[0:47:54.9] MF: Oh, it’s the yin-yang symbol.


[0:47:56.6] KM: It’s the yin-yang symbol!


[0:47:57.7] MF: Thank you.


[0:47:58.6] KM: You could put that up in your office.


[0:48:00.1] MF: That’s great!


[0:48:00.6] KM: Yes, I know. 


[0:48:01.3] MF: Thank you so much.


[0:48:02.6] KM: You’re so welcome. Who’s my guest next week, Tim?


[0:48:05.6] TB: Next week, it’s going to be Connie Fails of the Clinton Foundation.


[0:48:08.0] KM: Oh! She’s an old friend. She's good too. You like that flag, don’t you? She’s grinning from ear-to-ear. If this wasn’t radio, y’all could see.


[0:48:11.5] MF: I do love it. Right.


[0:48:15.5] KM: If you have a great entrepreneurial story you would like to share, I would love to hear from you. Send a brief bio and your contact info to question@upyourbusiness.org and someone will be in touch.


Finally, to our listeners, thank you for spending time with me. If you think this program has been about you, you're right, but it's also been for me. Thank you for letting me fulfill my destiny. My hope today is that you’ve heard or learned something that's been inspiring or enlightening and that it, whatever it is, will help you up your business, your independence, or your life. I'm Carrie McCoy and I’ll see you next time on Up in Your Business. Until then, be brave and keep it up.




[0:48:53.2] TB: You’ve been listening to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. Want to hear today’s program again or want someone else to benefit from it? Jot this down. Within 48 hours the podcast will be available at flagandbanner.com. Click the tab labeled “Radio Show”, there you’ll find today’s segments with links to resources you heard discussed on this program. Kerry’s goal: to help you live the American Dream.



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