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Cole Rodgers of School of Man & Hilary Downey and Bridget Shinn of Balance by Hilary

Listen to Learn:

  • How Cole came to realize he was not the best version of himself
  • How learning macros changed Hilary's life
  • Why setting small goals can lead to achieving big dreams
  • The health scare that brought Bridget around to asking for help

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Cole Rodgers founder of School of Man, an organization that builds real men, has truly become a leading minister of impact. Cole who has come from the brink of divorce, battling substance use, all while losing his way, achieved what all men seek - freedom. He liberated himself and intern has liberated men across the globe and allowed them to truly be free and not exist.

Hilary Downey is the founder and owner of Hilary Balanced Lifestyle. Bridget Shinn is not only Hilary's mom, but also her business partner, and the leader of the Balanced Babes community. Together they offer an online program for women to lose weight eating the foods they love. 

Cole's original interview

Hilary's original interview

School of Man

Balance by Hilary

Transcript Begins: 



[00:00:00] ANNOUNCER: Welcome to the first episode of Up In Your Business with Kerry McCoy for the year 2023. We're glad you're tuned in. This is going to be a compilation program featuring a couple of entrepreneurial spirits that Kerry McCoy has spoken to in the past year or so.

One will be a conversation with Cole Rodgers, about his book, the School of Man: A Man's Guide to Living, Loving and Legacy. And we'll begin the program with that always present at the first of the year desire from people and that is to lose weight. This is a brand-new approach about weight loss and how it became a business for Hilary Downey and Bridget Shinn. Welcome to Up In Your Business with Kerry McCoy.

[00:00:49] GM: Welcome to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy, a production of flagandbanner.com. Through storytelling and conversational interviews, this weekly radio show and podcast offers listeners an insider’s view into the commonalities of successful people and the ups and downs of risk taking. Now, it’s time for Kerry McCoy to get all up in your business.


[00:01:10] KM: Thank you, son, Gray. My guest today are Bridget Shinn and her daughter, Hilary Downey, who have been in the national spotlight for their successful weight loss program. Their stories are those of countless other women. Mom Bridget calls herself a chronic fad dieter, while daughter Hilary found herself overweight and tired after her first pregnancy. Online, Hilary looked for solutions and discovered the app Lose It for tracking her eating habits. Soon, Hilary was having noticeable success with little food sacrifices. Her mother took notice.

Over the next two years, Bridget lost a 100 pounds by following her daughter's advice and counting her daily macro nutrients. Though their struggle with weight loss is common, their methodology is different. So much so that they have been featured on the cover of Women's World, featured in Today's Show website, in People Magazine, on Access Hollywood, and soon to be, on The Doctors.

Now as a certified nutritionist, daughter Hilary Downey shares her experience, knowledge and education with the world on her website, Balanced, by Hilary. It is my pleasure to welcome to the table the inspiring mother-daughter duo, Miss Bridget Shinn and her now famous daughter, Miss Hilary Downey. Hello, ladies.

[00:02:29] HD: Hello, Kerry. Thank you for having us.

[00:02:30] BS: We’re so excited to be here.

[00:02:32] KM: You guys are killing it. I am fascinated by your success story, and not just your weight loss success. That's great. But your entrepreneurship. Mom, let's start with you. You said, “I had been up and down my entire life. If it's a Monday, I was on a new diet.” Talk to us about that.

[00:02:52] BS: Every Monday, like clockwork, I started a new diet. By Wednesday or Thursday, I was done. I was off the rails and looking to the next Monday for what new diet I would start.

[00:03:07] KM: I think a lot of people do that.

[00:03:07] BS: Absolutely.

[00:03:09] KM: Why was it not successful?

[00:03:12] BS: Because the diets that I tried came from a point of deprivation. Everything was focused on what I could not have. I never focused on what I could have. When I saw Hilary losing weight and going out to dinner with us, we would have pizza, we would have Mexican food. She'd have the chips, the dip, a margarita, a glass of wine. I thought, okay –

[00:03:38] KM: It’s doing –

[00:03:38] BS: Yes. What am I doing wrong? After a very serious health scare, then my doctor said, “You have got to lose weight this time and no more playing.” I turned to Hilary and said, “Help me. What can I do? You're doing it. Tell me what to do.”

[00:03:55] KM: That's a role reversal, isn't it? Mom asking daughter for help. You had two surgeries.

[00:04:02] BS: I did. I had two weight loss surgeries. I certainly did. Neither were successful. The first one was the lap band. I lost weight, but it was a forced bulimia. I ended up – the lap band eroded my stomach and I was septic. I had an emergency removal. Then, I gained all the weight back. Then I had the gastric sleeve, and I only lost 14 pounds. I decided that, no more surgeries. I was done.

[00:04:38] KM: Didn't you have your part of your colon removed? Was that part the septic?

[00:04:43] BS: No. Then I went on to a sedentary, unhealthy life. I tell, gosh, 10 years later, I guess, I started having diverticulitis episodes. I had five in two years. My doctor said, “We’re done. You have got to have the diseased part of your colon removed.” After it was over, he said, “You've got to make some lifestyle changes. You just have to. Losing weight is at the top of the list.” Suddenly, I'm watching her eating all the food and drinking wine and a margarita when we go out and I'm thinking, “Now, wait a minute. I want this. This, I can do.” Instead of excluding whole food groups, knowing I can never have another piece of chocolate. Every day at 10:00, I have chocolate. Two pieces of chocolate with a cup of coffee.

[00:05:37] KM: Oh, that sounds lovely.

[00:05:37] BS: Yeah, every day.

[00:05:38] KM: Hilary, let's hear about your story. You had an aha moment.

[00:05:41] HD: I did. After the birth of my first child, I had gained about 70 pounds in my pregnancy. It was one of those things I thought, it's just baby weight. It'll come right off. That did not happen. After I had him, I continued to gain weight. I guess, he was about six-weeks-old when my aha moment happened, that I was walking into the grocery store with him and his little baby carrier. I had picked the closest spot to the front of the grocery store, walked in, and I was winded. I mean, so winded that I had to sit down on a bench, because I just could not even keep moving.

I thought, this is no way to live. I'm 23-years-old, and he's going to be up and running one day, and I'm going to have to chase him. I'm going to have to keep up with him. It was definitely my aha moment that I needed to get the weight off, and I needed to have better energy and feel better in my body.

[00:06:46] KM: You had had enough.

[00:06:47] HD: Absolutely.

[00:06:47] KM: What happened next?

[00:06:50] HD: I went immediately to work. I did not wait another day. I went home that day. I just started searching through. I was in a support group for moms that were really looking to get healthy. In that group, there's so many different women. There were thousands of women who were sharing their methodologies. All of them were fad diets, for the most part. Like mom was talking about, things where you had to deprive yourself and give everything up. I was feeling pretty defeated thinking, is this really the only way that I'm going to be able to lose weight and get healthy is giving up all these things? I love food. I'm a foodie. I thought, there's just no way I can do that.

Somebody just happened to mention, macros, and that you could count your macros and eat anything you wanted, so long as you stayed within your macros. That was it. I went on a research journey that day and learned everything I could and started logging my food in the Lost It app. That was it. That was the beginning. Never looked back.

[00:07:57] KM: What was your favorite part about that suggestion, the fact that you could eat anything you wanted?

[00:08:01] HD: Absolutely. Being a foodie, I love going out to eat. I love cooking. It's my love language for people. I love holidays. I love food, period. It's such a source of enjoyment in my life that I knew I wasn't willing to go on a diet, where I couldn't have pizza, or Mexican food, or a glass of wine. With macro counting, all of that is on the table. All foods fit in.

[00:08:33] KM: Did you think about your mother at all?

[00:08:34] HD: Absolutely. She was the biggest source of motivation for me to not get caught up in that fad diet cycle, of extreme restriction and fighting against my body. My weight loss stemmed from a place of love. I loved myself enough that I wanted to feel good in my body. I didn't want to be at battle, and at war with dieting and my body. With this approach, I just felt there was such a sense of love for yourself. I wanted to be an example for my son and show him that you could have a healthy relationship with food.

[00:09:16] KM: I love this paragraph under your story on your website. It says, “We didn't pursue weight loss, because we didn't love ourselves. We made changes, because we did love ourselves. We wanted to take care of the one body we are given and what says self-love more than that? Make no mistake about it, we've always been worthy. Now, we're just strong, healthy and confident, too. Low energy, serious health issues and poor quality of life spurred changes in us. Sure, we lost weight, but we gained so much more.” Who wrote that? Both of you.

[00:09:56] HD: Yeah. I was going to say, it sounds like something I wrote. Then mom ended up editing for me.

[00:10:01] BS: It’s that English teacher thing.

[00:10:01] KM: That is good. I never hear anybody talked about weight loss as anything other than deprivation.

[00:10:08] GM: Yeah, form of self-love.

[00:10:08] KM: And I don't love myself. This is actually, I do love myself.

[00:10:13] BS: Absolutely.

[00:10:14] ANNOUNCER: Did you notice that Hilary Downey and Bridget Shinn both had an aha moment before they moved into what has become a successful weight loss program, and all the publicity that goes along with it?

Our second guest on this compilation of Up In Your Business with Kerry McCoy program is Cole Rodgers. He's written a book and started a 12-week course called the School of Man, and he too had an aha moment. First off, what is the School Of Man?

[00:10:44] KM: A 12-week mental and physical toughness planner that claims to build leaders, strengthen family ties, and help you win mentally, physically, and financially.

Through Cole's own experiences of admiring wrongly stoic, masculine and often confusing male role models, Cole hit bottom, so to speak. This is when Cole went soul searching. And through hard work, discovered what was really missing in his life and what it really means to be a man.

Thrilled with his newfound knowledge and self-awareness, he founded the School of Man: A Man's Guide to Living, Loving and Legacy. And he has authored a book on the subject. He admits his techniques are simple, but it is the willingness to start and the execution that is hard. This is where School of Man comes in to support, motivate and hold you accountable not just physically, but emotionally, too. It is my pleasure to welcome to the table, the 21st century warrior, educator, author and family man, Mr. Cole Rodgers.

[00:11:47] CR: Wow!

[00:11:49] KM: Did I read your book right?

[00:11:51] CR: Spot on.

[00:11:53] KM: There were so many fun quotes in this book that I just went kind of cuckoo with dog earring it, yellow highlighter, pins. On page 39 at the end of chapter six. “I wanted to find a way to tell men that if they want to be better in their lives, they have to choose it. They have to ask for the ball. They have to seek out the heart and embrace the struggle. They have to understand that everything is a test. And that these tests are not open book. They can choose comfort for their lives, but it will make them soft and eager for shortcut, which will eventually cause them to dig out masks out of the closets.

In the end, I want to assure men that if they can truly man-up and choose themselves, their being, their business, their body, their family, then they'll be able to design their own lives rather than having someone else or something else design it for them. The way I've found to tell as many men as possible and have that not only hear what I'm saying, but also embrace what I'm saying, is through the School of Man.”

So, the book is written in three parts. Part one is your history. Part two, starting School of Man. And part three is life, love and legacy. So, let's start with part one. You are open about your weaknesses and claim owning your weaknesses and working on them is a strength. Though often, the opposite is thought to be true. Tell us your story and how that revelation came to be.

[00:13:25] CR: The common narrative is find your strength, right? There's a great book out there called StrengthsFinders. And go all in on your strengths. And I do believe in that mentality, that strategy. However, when you're an alpha like me, and when you're on the unhealthy side, because all of us, as men, who are looking to achieve, to accomplish, to leave the world a better place, to make memories with our family. We're searching for one thing, it's a very common thing. It's something that blood has been shed over for thousands and thousands of years. It's freedom, right? So, it's freedom and liberation.

It was funny that we held an event here. Men and their families came in from across the country. And it's called Rebirth. Is Rebirth 2.0. One of the men that were there, he was incarcerated for nine years in prison, right? And the room is full. I mean, hundred plus men, et cetera and it's very intimidating environment, and you could tell that he was trying to pull himself away and/or he was struggling to come to grips with like, “How do I measure up?” Because that's what we've been taught. We've been taught as men to measure ourselves on three things as we were kids; athletics, the woman we chase, and power, a.k.a. money. If you can check all three boxes, society tells you're doing really good things as a man.

But the facts are, and I'm going back to the story with Cody, that after we got finished in the first morning, and he felt somewhat intimidated. I told him flat out, I said, “We've got over 100 men here that have imprisoned themselves. They don't have to be behind bars. They don't have to be behind a wall. They walk around hiding in plain sight.” I've been that man. I mean, slavery, although has been “abolished”, is still around. We do it to ourselves, men, women, children, all of us, because that's what society wants and that's what we buy into. Their limiting beliefs, self-sabotage, right? Self-doubt, et cetera. Whatever you want to call it. And that's what I told Cody. I said, “Men in here seeking for one thing, like we're all seeking since the beginning of time, and that's freedom and liberation. The only way you get there, though, is truly owning your flaws and understanding that you're a perfectly flawed man. And that everything that has been given to you in life has happened for you and not to you.” And that's the truth.

It takes a lot of pain, distilled into purpose, which equates to your promise to the world to get to that place to say that. Because going back to the three benchmarks, and like I was talking to Cody into the group, and it resonated with everybody, of course, is that that is a constant evolution throughout life. You don't just come to this realization that, “Boom! I'm liberated. And I'm perfectly flawed. So, the world is going to give me what I'm asking for it.” No. You have to actually put what you have earned. And I call it paying the tuition. All the scars. All the people that you've hurt, right? The person that you've lied to in the mirror for your entire life and fed yourself these lies and called a caviar. You have to eventually convert that and distill it into, “Yes, this stuff has happened for me, not to me. How can I best use it as being an instrument of impact?” Instead of wearing a mask on top of a mask on top of a mask.

In particular, in the world that I operate in, as being an entrepreneur, three businesses, in production, in sales, creating, moving society forward, that's what the greats have always done, you're expected to always perform at a certain level. And that's really where my story was unfolding, is that I'm blessed in the sense that I've gotten to be in a family with my mother and father who are married to this day and are in love to this day. It's one thing to love someone. It's another thing to fall in love with someone over and over and over again. And that's the truth.

And as a kid, when I was born, I almost died due to meningitis. So, I was born a fighter. Because, as men, that's what we were all created to be as a fighter at the end of the day in the most positive ways. And I'm not talking about going downrange or in war. But you dig your boots in and you create a stand, and you will never fall for anything once you stand for something. But throughout my life, I've been fortunate to be around a family that what a marriage looks like. I've been fortunate enough to also see how you're to operate the value systems, the character that you build. But over time, because we are told how to be, how to act, what to do, institutions do a great job of it. And today's, I would say, messaging really does a great job of telling you how you should be and how you should act and do this, don't do that, so on and so forth, you start buying into it. And you start buying into the narrative of what your little circle looks like, because it's the law of the mirror. Your network equals your net worth. And all of a sudden, as a young man, you start developing these insecurities over time. Maybe it is that you're not as athletic as somebody. Or maybe it is that you're just constantly in comparison mode, because we're good at that.

[00:18:47] KM: And when you first start out, you're dealing with uncertainties as a young man because you've got all these – what did you call them? Expectations put on you by society. So, you're getting out of college, and you're about to go thinking, “I got to get a –” Let me see. First of all, I think I remember you had your heart broken in college.

[00:19:05] CR: I did. That was the first time I ever experienced that. And that also, because of the energy that God has given me, I can use it for good, or I can use it for bad. But at that same time in college, I picked up Adderall, and it was one of those things. Adderall was just making its way. I drank more whiskey than I can remember. As a senior in high school, I wasn't known as the captain of the basketball team or the baseball team. I was known as the guy that had seven kegs.

[00:19:32] KM: But you were also those other two?

[00:19:34] CR: Yes.

[00:19:34] KM: Oh. But that's now what you’re known for. Okay.

[00:19:36] CR: Yeah. It was one of those things that myself and my buddies were known as, “Hey, those are the guys that could throw the best parties.” And that's what I wanted to be known for, honestly.

[00:19:46] KM: So, how old were you when you started on Adderall?

[00:19:48] CR: I was 18, 19. And then that turned into, just like I'm 38 years young, my generation turned that into a party drug, right? It was used to cram for tests. And at that same time, it was used for us to stay up until five in the morning to go to the cowboy and everything else and run the gamut Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday.

Then, as I graduated, I did bring up my GPA. It felt good. And I had someone that was a mentor in college that said, “Look, it's not about your grades. It's about the process. It's about achieving something that you think is impossible.” And I did at that time. That's how limited my thinking was and how small my thinking was. But I always wanted to do something great. And the first book I ever read was Twelve Pillars. I can't even remember the lady's name that laid it on my desk. It's by Jim Rohn. And it changed my perspective on everything.

Going back to expectations, the quickest way to disappointment is through setting an unrealistic expectation for yourself or someone else for that matter. And as I graduated, I mean, Adderall was basically like a Skittle. You went from eating it. You went to crushing it, to snorting it, et cetera. So, I knew I had to get out of Central Arkansas. So, I took a job in Nashville, Tennessee. But I brought all these habits with me, in particular, all the insecurities, in particular, just this false sense of identity. But that's what we've been taught to do, right?

[00:21:20] KM: But you were successful there, right?

[00:21:21] CR: Very successful. Yes.

[00:21:22] KM: What were you doing there?

[00:21:24] CR: So, I started off in sales. I was working for an affiliate for an insurance carrier. One of the most brand name insurance carriers out there. And my first starting job, my salary was $18,000. And every time I would look myself in the mirror is like, over here, professionally, I was moving the needle. And I would come back to Central Arkansas, and I would make a point to buy everybody's drinks at Gazano’s, right? Just because I wanted to feel like the man, right? Even if I couldn't afford it at the time. But I wanted their approvals like, “Oh, Cole's doing some great things.”

But fast forward, I knew I had to get out of Nashville, and that's when I moved to Raleigh, Durham, North Carolina, where I met my wife, bringing all – I was like, “I've got to leave all this stuff behind.

[00:22:07] KM: You knew. You'd be gone too far.

[00:22:08] CR: Yeah. And I had achieved what I wanted to achieve in a short amount of time at that time in my life, in sales and becoming the number one sales guy in the organization, and the Rookie of the Year, all those things were important to me. And achievement was my motivation, was my fuel for life. Like the more I achieved, I think that the more I would be happy, right?

That's where kind of thing started unfolding for me. And I met Ashley at that time. I was 26, 27, and I met her on eHarmony. That's how insecure I was, I would tell everybody I met her at Harris Teeter, the grocery store. And people were like, “That really works?” Because I didn't want to tell him I met her on a dating website. Because I tell my buddies like, “Oh, he can't pick up a girl.”

[00:22:58] GM: Now it’s opposite. If you don't meet somebody on the Internet, it's like, “What? You could still do that?”

[00:23:01] CR: Exactly. 100%. And I was working 70, 80 hours a week. Hated what I was doing, and I knew that was the time to get out. And I always told myself, “When I'm not happy, it's time to make a change.”

[00:23:14] KM: You met her before you left Tennessee? That's why you went to North Carolina?

[00:23:18] CR: No, no, no. I met her in North Carolina. Yup, I met her in North Carolina. And at that time, she didn't know any of this. And as a man who's in that specific position, the number one thing I started going back to was lying to her. It was the easiest way to do. It’s like just push the dirt under rug.

[00:23:40] KM: There’s something about lying and addicts that go together even when you don't need to.

[00:23:44] CR: Yeah. It was little white lies that started. That's how it always starts. Little micro fractures, right? And I had kicked those bad habits, put them at bay, but I could drink like a fish. You know, if you're going to run with the boys at night, you better wake up with the men in the morning. And that's what was beat into me. And that's what I enjoyed doing at the time.

[00:24:05] KM: Do you just see why I loved his book? He has the best clichés. If you're going to run with the boys at night, you better wake up with the men in the morning. I've never heard that. You make that up?

[00:24:14] CR: No. My mentors have always said that. Like, you bet, if you’re going to hang out with the owls at night, you better be up here soaring with the eagles in the morning is the other way –

[00:24:23] KM: See? That’s what his whole book is.

[00:24:25] CR: Yeah. I ended up leaving that career and coming over back to Little Rock. Starting my business. I've always been in the insurance game. Got into the consulting part of the world. So, that's my core business. Love it. Love it so much. But Ashley and I did long distance for close to a year. And that's where I knew – so, I ended up taking the job. Basically, making half of what I was making. And we didn't have any children at the time. So, it was a strategic move on my part, knowing I was going to 20x whatever I was going to do. I'm not a quitter. You can't beat me at the end of day. Only I can do that.

But when she came over, I had blown my Achilles out. Six months later, I'm in the hospital for five days for staph infection. Yeah, we get married the next year. Time's running out. Money's running out. And the first night of a rehearsal dinner, back on Adderall, back on that train. Because all I can think about was performance, performance, performance. How can I get more focus? How can I get more edge? How can I accelerate my growth? How can I accelerate it? Time is not moving fast. Or the results are not coming fast enough for me.

Like, I was never one of those that I wanted to – the prescription pill game was really, really big with my generation in school. Like, that's really where it started, with the hydros and the percocets. And I never was into that. And I would like come and go, come and go when it came to Adderall and when it came to drinking, et cetera. But I always wanted an edge. Like that's just it. I wanted an edge. That's what I sought out. We all have a dark side. You just have to understand how best to use that energy in the right areas. I don't care who it is. Everybody has a dark side that wants to come out and play. And I've learned that about everybody that's successful, too. You just know how best to use it in the right areas.

[00:26:38] KM: You said in your book, you said – you talked about your wedding day that it was blissful. But you also called yourself – and I'm quoting what you called yourself in the book, a self-centered, egomaniac, a narcissist who was struggling more than she, Ashley, could have known.

[00:26:54] CR: 100% Yeah. If she's in the car, if she came up here, and she'd be like, “Yeah, 100%.”

[00:27:00] KM: You said you didn't know how to be married.

[00:27:02] CR: No. I mean, being a father, being married, none of that comes with a manual at the time. Rehearsal, I mean, just at that point, we go on party until midnight, one o'clock in the morning. I knock on her door. I go to see her. I literally sit on the bed and I was so drunk that I hit the bed and hit the floor.

[00:27:22] KM: This is the night before you got married?

[00:27:23] CR: Yeah. And then she was, of course, crying. And then the next day, the only way I can make it through it was drinking more and taking Adderall.

[00:27:30] KM: Oh, boy, what a great honeymoon night, I bet.

[00:27:32] CR: It gets even a little bit deeper than that. Then we go to Costa Rica. And –

[00:27:38] KM: Are you sure you want to tell?

[00:27:41] CR: No. I mean, this is all public knowledge. This is a part of my process and part of the story. And of course, Ashley, we've told it more than once. I mean, perfectly flawed husband, 27-years-old and things didn't go in my favor. Let's just put it to you that way.

[00:27:56] KM: You called the first three or four years of marriage the messy middle.

[00:27:59] CR: Yeah. That week did not go my way. And you can read into that. And I left her in the room, in the shower, and went to the bar and got blitzed. So, all I knew that I needed to do at that time is that I just got to go make money. Like, I got to go produce. I get this new business. I got to go produce. Well guess what? A month later, we're like, “We don't know if we need to be together. We don't know if this is going to work.” Well, guess who she was pregnant with?

[00:28:28] KM: Oh. Sweetheart over there.

[00:28:31] CR: That's right. And nine months later, sweetheart over there flatlined on the table. Mommy had to be rushed back into the OR because the umbilical cord made its way out before she did and was kinked like a water hose. So, she was born a fighter as well.

And I remember being outside of the OR just bawling my eyes out because I didn't have control, and guys like me love control. It's also an insecurity of ours. So, the only thing I could think of at that time was like, “Okay. Well, I've got $12,000 Now in health care debt, because I had an out of pocket expense. Just a large high-deductible health plan. I've got to go make money.” And this is almost two years in. I mean, things are dry. And when you're financially stressed, which 80% of Americans, I mean, goodness gracious, live paycheck to paycheck. And when you're in that level, that's all I just could dive in, because I have such an obsessive mindset.

[00:29:29] KM: So, you say Ashley helped you find – that your first three or four years was a messy middle. And that she helped you figure out who you are. So, what advice can you give to someone who doesn't have a companion who’s feeding themselves BS and calling it caviar? How did they ever get started?

[00:29:44] GM: The answer to that question coming up after the break. You're listening to Up In Your Business with Kerry McCoy


[00:29:53] GM: Over 40 years ago with only $400, Kerry founded Arkansas Flag and Banner. During the last four decades, the business has grown and changed, along with Kerry's experience and leadership knowledge. In 1995. She embraced the Internet and rebranded her company as simply FlagandBanner.com. In 2004, she became an early blogger. Since then, she has founded the nonprofit Friends of Dreamland Ballroom, began publishing her magazine, Brave. And in 2016, branched out into this very radio show, YouTube channel and podcast.

In 2020, Kerry McCoy Enterprises acquired OurCornerMarket.com, an online company specializing in American made plaques, signage and memorials for over 20 years. And in 2021, opened a satellite office in Miami, Florida, telling American made stories, selling American made flags, the FlagandBanner.com

[00:30:49] ANNOUNCER: Today's episode of Up In Your Business with Kerry McCoy is a compilation episode featuring Hillary Downey and Bridget Shinn from Balanced by Hilary, talking about their weight loss, how they've achieved it, and how it became a business. And we'll be back to hear from Hillary and Bridget in just a moment. But before the break, our other guest Cole Rodgers, who wrote the book, School of Man, A Man's Guide to Living, Loving and Legacy was asked this poignant question by Kerry McCoy.


[00:31:17] KM: What advice can you give to someone who doesn't have a companion who’s feeding themselves BS and calling it caviar? How did they ever get started?

[00:31:24] CR: Every time you look to yourself in the mirror, man, woman, I don't care who it is, right? And you feel like you have a need to be reborn in whatever area it is in your life at that point, it takes one thing, and it's just straight up commitment. Straight up commitment in making the decision.

So many of us get stuck where we are. Making the decision to move all the BS to the side and then just raising your hand. I mean, we live in a world where there's so much resources available to anybody. The minute you truly raise your hand and you commit saying, “Hey, take me through the fire.” Like, “I don't want to go through this. But I know I have to go through this.” That's when I know someone's ready. But it takes commitment to thyself. Because you just get tired of being tired.

[00:32:12] KM: Just raise your hand. You’re right.

[00:32:13] CR: Just raise your hand and then take the hard step, but do it with someone who has been in your shoes, who is willing to go to battle into the trenches with you. So, that's just my thought.

[00:32:28] ANNOUNCER: It's time now to hear back from our other guests on this compilation episode of Up In Your Business with Kerry McCoy, and how they're amazingly successful weight loss program changed their lives and can change yours. Back now to Kerry’s other guests on the program.

[00:32:43] KM: Weight loss influencers, Bridget Shinn and nutritionist, Hilary Downey, who are teaching people how to ditch the fad dieting and lose weight for good on their website, Balanced by Hilary. Both of these ladies, mom and daughter, Bridget, and Hilary, they had their aha moment, where I'm going to change my life, how they went online. Hilary first, got into mother's group, learned about counting macros and thought, “I can do this. This is not a life of deprivation.” This is a life of love. Now, we're going to talk about what you did first. Started logging your food. How did you begin?

[00:33:20] HD: I downloaded the Lose It app. It gives you a recommendation for calories and macros. I ended up using an online calculator that calculated mine. Honestly, this is where a lot of people end up getting a professional opinion. Having a professional like me calculate their macros. I did it myself. I already loved science. For me, it was fun to use the formula, plug in all the numbers. Once you have your macro numbers, you just start logging your food, and that's really it.

[00:33:57] KM: How do you get a macro number?

[00:33:59] HD: In order to get your macros, they are individualized to you. Every person is going to have different numbers. What it's really based off of is it's a professional formula that you use and that professionals are trained to calculate. What it does is it looks at your anthropometric measurements, so your height, your weight, it looks at your age. It also looks at your lifestyle. Are you active? Are you sitting all day for your job, or are you heavy labor, moving around? Then it accounts for your exercise, and how often you are moving your body.

Basically, what you're doing is you are taking the amount of calories that you need to be eating in order to maintain your weight. Then you subtract a little bit and you move into a calorie deficit, which is how we lose weight.

[00:34:54] KM: What are macro nutrients, first of all?

[00:34:58] HD: For macronutrients, what you're looking at is protein, fat, and carbs. All three.

[00:35:04] KM: That's it?

[00:35:03] HD: Yeah, that's it. All three of these things add up to your calorie amount. If you look at a food label, you'll see there's the fat listed, there's the carbs listed, and there's the protein. If you do a little math, all of those numbers add up to the amount of calories that you see at the top of that food. When you're counting your macronutrients, what you're doing is you're adding all of the numbers up in the macronutrients of the food that you're eating throughout the day, and you're trying to hit specific targets.

When you log your food, you see all of this. In the Lose It app, what you have is you're logging your food, and it shows you your total for the day, how much protein you've eaten, for example. You can see, “Oh, I've eaten 80 grams of protein, but my goal is 100 grams of protein. I need 20 grams more.” It's a little bit of a puzzle that you're going on that you're trying to wiggle around your food options to hit that number.

[00:35:55] KM: And you can’t figure out your own amount you need? You need some nutritionist to figure it out for you, or a personal trainer, or somebody?

[00:36:02] HD: Only nutritionists are qualified in this. There are online calculators out there. That's what I was saying. That's what I used, that are – it's a computer doing it for you. Or you can have a professional calculate them for you. There's a lot of resources out there on how to do it yourself, which is how I did mine when I started. If you're looking for something more accurate, having a professional calculate it is the way to go.

[00:36:27] KM: List again what you take into consideration when you're –

[00:36:30] HD: Anthropometric measurements. Your height, your weight, your age, and your activity level.

[00:36:36] KM: Do you work at a desk?

[00:36:38] HD: Right. Then you add on to that your exercise routine and habits, but also, we work with women. We also are looking at, are they nursing? That's going to add more calories. Different things, too. I take it a step further. I'm very thorough with mine. I asked you if you know how many calories you've been eating, and that's going to affect your numbers. Again, the online calculators do an overview. Whereas, when you have a professional look at these things, you're going to get more accurate numbers.

[00:37:09] KM: How long before you start to see the results? You love food, and you still lost weight. How long was it before you begin to really see – and you're saying, you didn't necessarily count calories. Because if you count the macros, it counts calories for you.

[00:37:26] HD: Exactly. What I like to explain to people is, if you can count calories, you can count macros. It's just an extension. Just a little extension. Instead of just focusing on your calories, now you're going to focus on how your calories are made up.

[00:37:39] KM: What kind of calories you're consuming. It goes with your body type.

[00:37:41] HD: Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. It makes a difference. Weight loss protein is very important. You can be eating a certain amount of calories, but you're filling it up with carbs, and fats, which is what most women do. That's just our Western diet. Protein is absolutely crucial for weight loss success. You're taking it a step further, really enhancing your results by counting your macros.

[00:38:06] KM: How long before you start seeing results?

[00:38:09] HD: Definitely, it took me a couple of weeks to really see the changes. I would say, probably two or three weeks before. I was weighing myself daily on a scale, because I wanted to – because I had done my calculation myself, I wanted to gauge my progress and see the changes happening. Overall, weight loss is not a straight line. It took some time, I would say, about two weeks before I really started to see the changes and see the scale move in a downward trend.

[00:38:40] KM: Then, at what pace did it go after that?

[00:38:43] HD: I lost about one to two pounds a week, which is good, healthy, sustainable weight loss.

[00:38:47] KM: Bridget, how long before you started going, “Okay, she's onto something”?

[00:38:51] BS: Oh, immediately. When I saw her body changing and she was healthy and she had energy, she started working out. I thought, wow. I mean, whatever she's doing, it's working.

[00:39:08] KM: Hilary had you ever worked out before?

[00:39:10] HD: I was a cheerleader growing up, but in my adult life, absolutely not. I was sedentary. I was actually prior to getting pregnant, a chain smoker, who –

[00:39:19] KM: What?

[00:39:20] HD: Yes, absolutely. Lived on fast food and Coca-Cola and energy drinks.

[00:39:26] KM: Oh, sounds like a good life.

[00:39:30] GM: Live fast, die young.

[00:39:32] BS: Exactly. We were dying quickly.

[00:39:35] HD: Yeah. I had the college kid diet. My pregnancy is what definitely obviously pulled me out of those habits. No, I didn't exercise. I didn't have any exercise knowledge.

[00:39:46] ANNOUNCER: You just heard Hillary from Balanced by Hilary, refer to her college kid diet and her self-destructive diet habits, lack of exercise, fast food, soft drinks, caffeine. That all changed after she discovered the weight loss technique that's been so successful for her.

Our other guest on today's program is Cole Rodgers. And he too, meets men who are on a self-destructive path, like the one he was on before he started the School of Man.

[00:40:17] KM: We talked with Cole about his path, how he ended up here, his self-destructive warrior mentality when he was young.

[00:40:25] CR: We are meeting men where they are in their lives. The key is, “Do you want to be a better man by focusing on the things that matter most?” If the answer is yes, then you've come to the right place. Because we've got that deep bench of men who are going to coach, who are going to guide you, who are going to make you level up just simply because of who they are and the caliber of type of men that they are. They don't just talk about. They are about it. So, we have – and that's what I love, is that you've got in SoM, it’s not just one typecast. You got every make, and model, and creed out there in SoM.

[00:41:05] KM: Okay. Do you have gay guys in there?

[00:41:07] CR: We don't. Not yet. And that's something that – I mean, with SoM, because we're such a – from an outside looking in, it's funny how we – it's funny how –

[00:41:20] KM: Would a gay guy feel comfortable there?

[00:41:21] CR: 100%. Yeah.

[00:41:23] GM: This is an interesting point. My husband received a postcard for the School of Man about three days before you're supposed – we confirmed your interview here. And I thought the same thing. The novel thing that I think about School of Man that probably attracts a lot of – or that makes it work for straight men is that gay men kind of have the community and the support system, because we make it for ourselves. I find that that straight men don't do that for themselves in the same way that –

[00:41:52] CR: Yeah, that makes sense. That’s the way to think about that.

[00:41:53] GM: And again, it's all society expectations, whatever. And that there's always exceptions to the rule. But where's the straight man's yoga and wine like women have? Or paint and sip or whatever? Or the –

[00:42:12] KM: And I don't think gay men are afraid to talk about their feelings.

[00:42:15] GM: Possibly. But –

[00:42:16] CR: I didn't even think about that, to be honest.

[00:42:19] GM: To me, School of Man is a really positive outlet experience that I think straight men just aren't allowed to have.

[00:42:29] CR: Well, and a lot of times, too, is that we as men, straight men, in particular, on the Alpha side, we will find ourselves becoming more and more lonely as we go through life. SoM is a very family-driven organization. So, our wives are extremely important, daughters, sons, et cetera. It's not just a group of ragtag individuals and that no one's allowed in or able to see behind the doors or the curtain per se.

[00:43:02] ANNOUNCER: Everyone's welcome to investigate what the school of man might be able to do to help them. Transparency is a big part of Balanced by Hilary as well. As a matter of fact, their social media presence, very strong. Here's Kerry McCoy, again, speaking with Hilary.

[00:43:22] KM: What's the name of your website?

[00:43:25] HD: The website is hilarybalancedlifestyle.com. If you're looking for me on social media, Balanced by Hilary.

[00:43:31] KM: You've got a Twitter account. You got an Instagram.

[00:43:35] HD: And a Facebook page.

[00:43:38] KM: And a Facebook page. So, what is balanced babes?

[00:43:42] HD: Balanced babes, it's really our brand. We wanted to create a community. I mean that's what it came down to. That was so important for my journey to have support and other women going through it, that we just wanted to create a community. We have this free online community. It's a Facebook group. Then also, if you follow me on Instagram, I give a lot away, a lot of good free resources and information. That's really what the balanced babes community is. It's our free Facebook group.

[00:44:15] KM: I'm a person who has heard about you have visited your website. Now what do I do first?

[00:44:22] HD: If you want to sign up for the 28-day macro challenge, you can sign up on the website. What you will get is I will calculate your personal macros after you fill out a little questionnaire, giving me the information. Then, we actually have our own app. You have access to our app when you join the challenge, and everything is hosted in there. We walk you through step by step. We have a proven framework for how to learn how to count macros, because it can be overwhelming. It's a lot of information. We break it down and we make it simplified, and we walk you through in the order that you need to go in.

Really focusing on laying the foundation first, how to log your food, how to focus on your calories. Then, we really dig in in the second week with the macronutrients, and we focus on one macro at a time, protein first, because it's the most important. then we hit carbs and fats.

[00:45:24] KM: Who takes care of your website?

[00:45:28] HD: Well, I do the website. I don't do as much on the website. I have app developers that I work with that help me run my app.

[00:45:33] KM: Who posts all the stuff you do? 00:37:54] HD: I do.

[00:45:36] KM: When you're talking about the fun stuff, the ongoing, that's you?

[00:45:42] HD: The 28-day is –

[00:45:43] KM: Set in stone.

[00:45:44] HD: It's set in stone.

[00:45:45] KM: You’re done with that.

[00:45:44] HD: It’s designed no matter how many – we have a lot of people that repeat it, so we have a lot of people that don't necessarily get it all down the first time, so they do it a second time. That one is set in stone we make little tweaks and improvements to it always. With the monthly membership, yes, it's a new topic every single month. This month, we're focused on mindful eating, and so there's new content being built around that each month.

[00:46:11] KM: Do you still use your Lose It app every day?

[00:46:14] HD: Absolutely. Every day. Every single day.

[00:46:16] KM: Are they paying you for all this?

[00:46:18] HD: We do affiliate with Lose It. Yeah, that's a brand that we affiliate with. I don’t get paid.

[00:46:27] KM: Do you have very many – you don't get paid?

[00:46:27] HD: I don’t get paid.

[00:46:30] KM: Well, you should talk –

[00:46:31] BS: But they present opportunities for us.

[00:46:32] HD: They are so amazing, they plug for us at every chance they get. That's how we got our People Magazine article. Yeah.

[00:46:42] KM: Do you have a link on your website to Lose It, says use this?

[00:46:44] HD: I do. I have, where you can use my code and do seven days for free. There's a link on my website to get that sign up.

[00:46:52] KM: Oh, that's good. If I do the 28-day challenge, I've got to use Lose It, don’t I?

[00:46:57] HD: You don't have to. All of our content is built around Lose It, just as far as tutorials and showing you how to log your food. We have so many women use My Fitness Pal, or some other food logging app.

[00:47:09] KM: But I couldn't log it myself with a pen and paper.

[00:47:13] BS: You could. It would be a lot of work.

[00:47:16] KM: I said earlier that I love this paragraph, and I'm going to read it again, just because I think it's worth reading. “We didn't pursue weight loss, because we didn't love ourselves. We made changes, because we did love ourselves. We wanted to take care of the one body we are given, and what says self-love more than that? Make no mistake about it, we've always been worthy. Now, we're just strong, healthy and confident, too. Low energy, serious health issues and poor quality of life spurred changes in us. Sure, we lost weight, but we gained so much more. You love what you're doing.

[00:47:47] HD: Absolutely. It’s a dream job.

[00:47:50] KM: It shows in everything you do.

[00:47:52] ANNOUNCER: That pride comes from the satisfaction of helping someone achieve their personal goals. Within the School of Man, the book and the school, that Cole Rodgers has been talking about on today's Up In Your Business program also has a very personal nature, that personal journey. Here's Kerry McCoy.

[00:48:13] KM: In your book, section two, you start with the book chapters eight through 13 with each person's name to tell their story. Why did you – when you talked about creating SoM in chapter two, why did you decide each chapter with a person's name? Adam, who helped you crystallize your dreams. Zack, who made me cry. I can't remember why now. But I remember I cried. And then Rick, I just really hurt for him.

[00:48:35] CR: Because it's important that people understand, we want to hear other people's stories. We want social proof. So, for me, it's equally important, if not more important. Like, I give you the story on Kirk, that all these men have been given a platform. Very successful men.

Rick, very accomplished in Air Force. Zack, very accomplished in the pharmaceutical industry. Adam, very accomplished in the real estate business. Whatever they do, that's not who they really are. And so, that's why it was important to me that these men who were brave enough to put that story out there get that platform to help other men liberate themselves.

[00:49:20] KM: And I think Rick was the one that I hurt for was abused by – sexually abused by a lot of people, wasn’t he? I mean, that's a very hard thing to come out and say in a man's group. You said that you have a reoccurring theme throughout your program. Being accountable. And that we all wear masks. And that being vulnerable, which you didn't think was – I think is the hardest part for you, is admitting weakness and being vulnerable. Even crying.

[00:49:49] CR: 100%.

[00:49:50] KM: That you wore a mask to cover those things up.

[00:49:53] CR: 100%. Yeah. And when you put all those together, when you embrace vulnerability, embrace extreme accountability and a system to produce true results that your family is going to benefit from and the world's going to benefit from, you become unstoppable. You become blessed and unstoppable.

It's so easy for us to exist. It's harder to live. And then we talked about the three hardest words for any man to say, I love you. But the greatest gift we can give ourselves is to know thyself and then love thyself. And to me, when I think of love, I have to start with Cole in order for me to give it to anybody else. And I don't mean in the egotistical, narcissistic way. I'm talking about truly embracing why I was created, or why I am created, my scars, my – all of it. Just the beauty of life and loving that. And then from a legacy, many books, thousands of books, have been written on, “You got to leave a legacy. You got to leave a legacy. You got to leave a legacy.” But I'm more about chasing immortality and helping others do the same.

What I mean by that is, is the impact, the wake that you live in the world, you don't have to have millions of followers on Instagram, or YouTube. Yeah, that, of course, helps you expand your reach, et cetera. But for me, my legacy is for my children, for my grandchildren, my great grandchildren, for my great, great grandchildren, et cetera. And it's based upon one simple ethos that I live by every day. Did I leave the world better than I found it? That's just how I live my life, and that's honestly how I've always lived my life. But through this journey, this messy thing called life has been fun and that's why I titled it School of Man: A Man's Guide to Living, Loving and Legacy.

[00:51:42] KM: And you talk about your ethos, a man is driven by his why. A man runs to the sound of adversity. A man commits to taking action. A man does not make excuses. A man chooses integrity as his value of choice. A man is a servant leader. A man embraces change. A lot of people have a problem with that. And a man embraces legacy.

I loved learning about you. I loved reading your book. I was telling you at the break, we should do our own show together sometime. I think it'd be fun.

[00:52:11] CR: Let’s do it.

[00:52:11] KM: But I have a gift for you and Ashley. It's a desk set with a North Carolina flag for Ashley.

[00:52:17] CR: Oh, my goodness gracious.

[00:52:19] KM: You see that child on there?

[00:52:20] CR: That is awesome.

[00:52:22] KM: And Arkansas flag, US flag, because you’re patriotic. And a flag for Ashley.

[00:52:25] CR: We are very big patriots in our family. Thank you so much. This has been a blessing.

[00:52:28] ANNOUNCER: That's Kerry McCoy saying thank you and goodbye to Cole Rodgers, half of our programs guest today. He's written the book, School of Man: A Man's Guide to Living, Loving and Legacy and also runs the School of Man.

Now, let's say goodbye and thank you to Hilary Downey and Bridget Shinn from Balanced by Hilary, their weight loss business.

[00:52:49] KM: I have a gift for you.

[00:52:50] GM: One for each of them.

[00:52:51] KM: All right.

[00:52:53] HD: I love it.

[00:52:52] BS: Is that a US, Arkansas and Texas flag?

[00:52:55] GM: That’s correct.

[00:52:55] HD: It’s cute.

[00:52:57] KM: Who’s from Texas?

[00:52:56] HD: Me.

[00:52:58] KM: You are.

[00:52:59] HD: I am.

[00:53:00] GM: I have an understanding that you have a long history in Texas.

[00:53:02] BS: I have a very long history in Texas. Thank you so much.

[00:53:06] KM: There is your base. Okay. For our listeners, it's a desk set.

[00:53:10] GS: I love this. Thank you.

[00:53:11] KM: You're welcome. It's a desk set with a US flag and Arkansas flag and a Texas flag. Thank you all very much for coming and I’ve enjoyed it.

[00:53:18] HD: Thank you for having us.

[00:53:18] KM: You’re welcome. In closing to our listeners, thank you for spending time with us. We hope you've heard or learned something that's been inspiring, or enlightening, and that it, whatever it is, will help you up your business, your independence or your life. I'm Kerry McCoy and I'll see you next time on Up in Your Business. Until then, be brave and keep it up.


[00:53:36] GM: You've been listening to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. If you’d like to sponsor this show or any show, email me, gray@flagandbanner.com. Kerry’s goal is simple, to help you, live the American dream.


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