Guest Compilation 2
National Spotlight
Every one of the guests in this episode have spent time in the national spotlight due to their accomplishments and accolades:
Leslie Singer: Rock star and half of the comedy duo 'The Two Jewish Guys'
Mitch Breitweiser: Comic book artist for Marvel and DC
P. Allen Smith & Chris Olsen: Local horticultural experts who turned their work into national gardening shows
Joey Lauren Adams: Golden Globe-nominated Actress who broke into fame on films such as Dazed and Confused, Chasing Amy, and Big Daddy
Susan McDougal: Gained famed during the Clinton Whitewater trials as 'The Woman Who Wouldn't Talk'
Arlo Washington: Founder of Washington Barber College and People Trust Federal Credit Union and (in the time since his interview with Kerry) the subject of an Oscar-nominated documentary
Joe Kleine: Former NBA player for the Arkansas Razorbacks and U.S. Olympic "Dream Team"
David Miller: Host of a national radio show about Big Band Music
TRANSCRIPT
EPISODE 481
[INTRODUCTION]
[00:00:09] GM: Welcome to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy, a production of flagandbanner.com. Through storytelling and conversational interviews, this weekly radio show and podcast offers listeners an insider’s view into commonalities of successful people and the ups and downs of risk-taking. Connect with Kerry through her candid, funny, informative, and always-encouraging weekly blog. And now it's time for Kerry McCoy to get all up in your business.
[00:00:41] TW: For the second week in a row we’ve got kind of a special program on Up in Your Business. We’re gonna take a look at past guests from the program who at one time or another enjoyed either a brief time or a very long time in the national spotlight. We’ve had lots of guests like that and last week we proved that with seven or eight excerpts from previous shows.
Well this week we’re gonna find some more. And we start off with TV stars. Here’s a couple of gentlemen that you got to know initially through their gardening segments and lifestyle segments on local newscasts, but both turned those ideas into national programs. I’m talking about P. Allen Smith and Chris Olsen. Let’s visit with P. Allen Smith first.
PAS: I just really wanted to share information and started doing this workshops that are nursery on Saturdays. They just grew in popularity.
KM: I think you trained everybody in town because nobody’s gardens looked at the way they do today. You could spot your gardens a mile away and pretty soon, a lot of nurseries were following your lead.
PAS: Well, I think that we did make an impact in the market and in a lot of ways, or in a few ways at least. I mean, one was sort of thinking about gardens in a different way and then also bring back a lot of great plants that we had sort of forgotten. If you went into a nursery in the early 80s, if you were looking for perennials, you might find daylilies and hostas and that would be it. Of course, being in England, it had opened my eyes to these amazing gardens and the variety of plants were being used and that reason, a lot of native plants. Plants that grew right here on our roadside.
KM: Really?
PAS: Yeah. It was quite a moment for me to recognize that. I began doing teaching and then there was a host of a radio show, Sharon Lee on KARN who came, she was very interested in gardens and gardening. She and her husband and she said look, we should do a radio show together. We started doing a radio show.
KM: Once a week?
PAS: We did for a couple of years for yeah, once a week for a couple of years and then we got our, our gut month when Rush Limbaugh went from one hour to two hours and at that very time, I got a very day actually, got a phone call from KATV, channel 7 and they said, we’re looking for someone to come in and talk about country western music, automotive repair and gardening. I said, well, if it’s not all the same person, I might be able to help you but I’d be at a loss talking about country western music or automotive repair. But I could give gardening a go. I went in and –
KM: Is it hard to prepare?
PAS: Well, I didn’t prepare, I didn’t know what to – how to prepare. I’ve never been in front of a television camera in my life. I just went in and auditioned. I thought I was absolutely awful and you know, being basically an introvert, it was a harrowing experience and – but they called me back and said, we want you to come in and I would just come in and talk about what I was going on in the garden.
KM: Do you have to bring props with you?
PAS: Well, yeah, a few things. You know, a tomato hornworm or something like that to show people.
KM: You mean, a real worm?
PAS: Yeah, roses that were blooming, things that were dead or dying and explain why and the great things –
KM: Opposite of what other people would do.
PAS: Well, it was, yeah, I mean, it was really sort of get right to it in two minutes, help people solve a problem. So, I just over time, these became very popular with channel 7 and I had the idea of maybe syndicating these. Moving into syndication with these little short 90 second spots. That’s how we got started, we formed a production company in 1993 and that was with some friends who were very supportive and they helped me get started with that –
KM: You had partners?
PAS: Yup, then we grew from there, we did the segments, the little 90 second reports for about eight years and grew their popularity and our coverage over, about 250 stations around the country and then those stations started asking or a 30 minute show because I was showing up in the local news, you know, at noon or the morning show, it was considered soft. What was so interesting early on, the news directors had to decide whether they want it or not because it was a 90 second report and it was in the news.
KM: Nobody was doing that, were they?
PAS: Well, there was a fellow that was underway with a food-focused 90 second – insert, they were called, or interstitial – and his name was Mr. Food and he would talk about you know, different kinds of recipes and foods and things like that. I sort of took that model at 90 seconds and developed it.
KM: Every week, you gave a new 90 second commercial and you put it out to your – to 250 radio or TV stations for about eight years, was it hard to keep coming up with stuff or did you just repeat the same material over and over because the year cycle through and kind of the same problems over and over?
PAS: No, we did one per day.
KM: One per day?
PAS: Each station got five a week. Every weekday, there was a new one that aired and so we did.
KM: How long before you started making money because that’s a lot of people to record and edit and put up and –
PAS: It was a huge amount of content for eight years.
KM: Yes, for 90 seconds, how much do you have to shoot? How long do you have to shoot a commercial or a spot to get 90 good seconds?
PAS: Well, it got shorter over time, but in the beginning it took a long time –
KM: Yeah
PAS: – because I had no idea what I was doing.
[00:06:39] TW: Let’s compare that P. Allen Smith story to Chris Olsen and find out how similar his story to national prominence was.
KM: Why did you start it? What came about? How did the events happen?
CO: Well, originally I had Horticare.
KM: Your business was Horticare?
CO: Yeah.
KM: I did not –
CO: It was called Ramos Landscape and then I changed it to Horticare.
KM: I remember that. Where was it?
CO: It was on Stagecoach, which my brother now owns. He still has Horticare.
KM: You’re exactly like P. Allen Smith.
CO: I know. It’s spooky because –
KM: I’m putting you all together.
CO: I know.
KM: We’re going to have dinner. Put it on the calendar. I’m getting you all together. Go ahead. Go ahead.
CO: I would do it. Anyhow, long story short is we were to open a second location, and we did in the Heights area, where we’re looking for kind of a garden boutique, a little bit more California fun-and-funky kind of thing.
KM: You’re also a decorator known for your use of color and produce a Today’s Home segment that is seen in 33 states. You’re a lifestyle expert. What is that?
CO: That show?
KM: Uh-huh!
CO: It’s called Today’s Home with Chris H. Olsen and it’s lifestyle segments and it’s anything to do with your lifestyle. I mean, from cooking, to gardening, to interior design, all different things. I mean, I just talk about whatever.
KM: It’s how many minutes?
CO: Well, there are segments. They’re like minute and a half, two-minute segments. What happens is different stations, different networks, purchase them and they use them wherever they want to. I had a friend in Florida we’re just talking about who just was getting a haircut and heard my voice and NBC was using it. It just depends whoever uses it and buys it.
KM: How do you get people to pick that up?
CO: I start it with channel 11.
KM: In The Garden.
CO: In The Garden. They purchase those segments. We produce them, me and Scott Romine, who’s my camera guy. We produce them. They bought them and they used it for fillers in their shows. Because of that, then our general manager from here moved and he started showing it in North Carolina and it just got –
KM: Now, I’ve seen you live on In The Garden, but you actually do –
CO: No. I pre-tape segments.
KM: Oh! I just think you’re live In The Garden maybe.
CO: Oh, no. When I’m at channel 11, that is all live except for I do The Vine now. I’m privileged that they gave me that. I do one Thursday a month live. The rest of them are pre-taped.
KM: How do you find time to garden, design, entertain in your home, be on TV? Because going on those segments takes preparation.
CO: Yes!
KM: It’s not like you’re just going to show up.
CO: No. I mean, you got to make those projects and make sure they work first and then you have to recreate them on the air.
KM: How much do you sleep?
CO: You know what? I only need about 5 hours of sleep.
KM: There it is!
[00:09:32] TW: Another local resident who’s been on Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy and has a nationally-syndicated radio show is David Miller from the Big Band Jazz radio show Swingin’ Down the Lane. If you’re old enough to remember the old Johnny Carson Tonight Show and the original band leader he had named Skitch Henderson; well then this story about how David’s life took a change to the national spotlight might ring a bell with you.
KM: So how did Skitch Henderson change your life?
DM: All right, Skitch. Okay. Skitch had a weekly program, which was broadcast nationally.
KM: And he's a bandleader, right?
DM: Yes. He led the band on The Tonight Show on TV for a while. And his producer called. And he said, “Skitch is going to have Helen Forest as his guest for next week's program. And they're going to be talking about the recording that she did with Benny Goodman, The Man I Love.” He said, “for some reason, we can't find that record.” I understand that you have a rather large record collection. Would you happen to have that?” And I said, “Well, just a minute. Let me just check. I think I do.”
And in those days, in 1983, I didn't have it on computer. I had it all hand-written. And I came back to the phone. I said, “Yeah, I've got three copies of it. It's old 78s down there in the basement. Three of them.” He said, “Great. Would you pick out the best of the three? Put it on tape? Send it to us. We need it for next week's broadcast.” Okay, I did that.
The next Saturday morning, Skitch himself came on and he said, “Well, Helen, you had a real success with that recording you made with Benny Goodman, The Man I Love. Well, so let's listen to it.” And the music starts. I reach over like this, grabbed a pen and I started writing. Tish looks over at me and said, “What are you doing?” I said, “I'm writing a news release.” “A news release? What about it?” “About the fact that local man's record is being played on national radio!” Well, she gave me one of those wifely looks, like –
KM: He just rolled his eyes, everybody. That's an entrepreneur right there.
DM: She said, “Who's going to care?” I said, “Well, I don't know. I'm going to send this into the paper. “Maybe they'll print it. Maybe they need a little paragraph someplace. So I said, “But before I send it to the paper, I better check with the station.” So I went over to North Little Rock to what was called the Twin City Bank Building. Went up to the top. And there was a studio not as plush, of course, as where we are here. But studio. And I talked with the studio manager. I showed him the article, and he kind of glanced at it and pushed it away. And he said, “Have you ever been on radio?” And I said, “No.” “Would you be interested in doing a program?” I thought, “That was a kind of a neat idea.” “Yeah.” That's how it started in 1983.
KM: And who came up with the name Swingin’ Down the Lane?
DM: Well, there’s a little story there. It used to be A Sentimental Journey with David Miller.
KM: Oh, I like that.
DM: Isn't that nice?
KM: Yes. So copyright problems?
DM: Yes. I used that for four or five years. And then I got a call from a lawyer in Florida. It seems that someone had been traveling through Arkansas and happened to catch the program and the title and decided that, “Wait a minute, he's using the name that we already have.” So I said, “Oh, okay. Well, I'll change –” I said, “I've got things in production and I’ll change it in probably two to three weeks.” He said – I remember exactly what he said. There were three words that stuck out in my mind, “Cease. Desist. Now.” And I remembered this 1921, 1922 song, Swinging Down the Lane. And I said, “that's what we're going to use.”
DM: Back in 1983, this was a nostalgia program. And my audience were the same age as me. And this was our music that I was bringing back to life. Okay. But as the years have gone by, it's not nostalgia. I'm a music educator now. I'm telling people about things that they did not experience and musicians that they may never have heard of, but which were great in their day. So Swingin’ Down the Lane gives me that flexibility to hop through different decades.
KM: You're absolutely a teacher.
DM: I am.
KM: Absolutely a teacher today. When you listen to your radio station, it is just a wealth of information.
[00:15:16] TW: David’s program Swingin’ Down the Lane is heard in over forty cities in American and in two different countries. Truly one of our previous guests on Up in Your Business who has enjoyed the national spotlight – and that’s what our last couple weeks of programs have been about, guests on the program who at one time enjoyed – for a short period of time or a long period of time – the national spotlight.
Next up: What do the terms “Marvel” and “DC” mean to you? Comic books! And now movies! Mitch Breitweiser has been a guest on the program a couple of times, and here’s his story of how he became a part of the world-wide popularity of comics.
KM: Did you go to college for an art degree, I guess?
MB: I did.
KM: And then you decided to, when you graduated, you went to Harding. Harding, is that University? Harding University in Searcy, Arkansas. And then when you graduated you instantly moved to New Jersey?
MB: Yes. At my senior year of college, I was starting to put art my comic book portfolio together and I started traveling to comic book conventions for the first time. I mean you hear about these things now, but back then they were – You didn't hear about them quite so much.
KM: Well, there wasn't the web.
MB: No. Yes. I didn't have a computer.
KM: It was like write for a pamphlet.
MB: Yes. I mean I remember reading everything I could about how to break into the comic book industry in the computer library, which had about maybe 10 computers in Harding University, and that's how you got on the internet and access to information. And I was in there all the time trying to figure out –
KM: And then you call them up and you say, “How do I meet other people?” And they say come to a convention.
MB: Yes, and that's what I did. So I put my portfolio together and I started traveling my senior year and then decided that if I was going to do this, I had to go and be where the publishers were, and then all the publishers were on 5th Avenue in New York City, is where Marvel was, and DC was I think on 57th Street. But that's what I did. And then I just started ingratiating myself with –
KM: Just walking around with your portfolio?
[00:06:15] MB: Yes, literally knocking on doors. Going to conventions was really what did it for me, because again I didn't have a computer. The internet was around obviously, but it's not like you had social media and you could just post your portfolio everywhere and get attention. It's much easier now to get noticed if you're an exceptional talent. Back then, you really had to do the legwork, which I kind of liked it that way, because it – I don't know. It was a fun experience.
KM: And then you finally did get a job at Marvel Comics.
MB: I did.
KM: How long did it take?
MB: I graduated college in 2000 and I really got my big break in 2005.
KM: So you've landed a job at Marvel Comics. What are you doing?
MB: My first big break was on a book called Drax the Destroyer. So I was living in Manhattan at the time, and because it was a crazy story. If you want to hear the crazy story.
KM: I love crazy stories.
MB: A little old lady rear-ended my car and it was a junky old used car and the insurance company paid me out probably way more than the car was worth, and I was at the time thinking about giving up on comics, because it’d been five years and I’m like, “I've really got to go get a real job and do something else.” And so I was really thinking about hanging it up.
KM: And so you got hit in the rear, like kick in the pants.
MB: It was a kick in the pants. And instead of buying another car, I bought a one – I was living in Nashville at that time. I'd taken a year off to go hang out with friends and play in bands and draw on the side. So I bought a one-way plane ticket and packed two suitcases and went into Manhattan and just said, “I've got so many thousands of dollars. Not that much. But I'm just going to go until the money runs out and risk it all.” And that's what I did. I lived in a shoebox apartment on 100th and Broadway. That was probably not much bigger than this studio right here that we're in, and it was a converted hotel room. And I went down to Chelsea and to the art store down there and I bought an air mattress and a drafting table and some paper and I just went to town.
I had a friend at the time. I knew some people in and around the comic book business. So my friend was drawing an X-Men book, and he lived in Chelsea, Sean Chen. He’s very talented, and he was in his mid-30s at the time. And he would skateboard up from Chelsea to turn his pages in at Marvel. And nobody really did that, because everybody lives kind of everywhere. But he would go and turn his pages in every Friday. So I'd call him every Thursday and tell him, “Hey, Sean. I've got three new pages. I want to show them around the office. Would you sneak me in the freight elevator?” This is after 9/11 obviously and all the buildings were really locked down and that's when they started doing the passcodes and you had to have a lanyard to get in the building. So he would sneak me in on the freight elevator to the editorial floor and I would just go in and make the rounds and stop editors if they didn't look like they were busy. If they were busy or had their doors shut, I would obviously make copies of all my new pages and I'd slide them under the door. And I just did that for about five months. And eventually I broke them down and they called me and said, “All right, you're getting better. We like your work.” And an editor called and said they wanted me to try out for this book called Drax the Destroyer. And I had no idea who this character was. He was a very obscure character at the time.
Now almost everyone who's a Marvel fan knows Drax the Destroyer, because he's one of the critical characters in the Guardians of the Galaxy film franchise. He's the guy with the tattoos played by John Batista. But anyway, I got that gig. And by the second issue I started getting calls from DC Comics, because you know what it's like when you start dating a hot girl?
KM: Yeah.
MB: All the other girls want to give you a call. So DC starts calling me just a few months after. It's like the dam kind of broke for me. And so then I called Marvel and my editor and I said, “Hey, I've been doing this for now a couple months. I really like working with you guys. It's been a lot of fun. But this is only four issues. And do I have a future beyond this? Because DC is calling me and they have some new things they're doing in the Fall and they're interested in my work.” And the next day I got a call from the editor-in-chief, and they offered me a two-year exclusive contract, which at the time that's kind of the thing, right? I mean that guarantees you work. It means they'll keep feeding you gigs, a contract.
KM: You got a contract. Yeah, two-year contract.
MB: Yeah. And so at that time, I mean of course I accepted and then I made the decision to move back to Arkansas.
KM: After your two-year contract, or no?
MB: No. Immediately.
[00:21:40] TW: We’re glad Mitch came back to Arkansas immediately. That’s why he could be included in this show of Arkansans who made it to the national spotlight for one reason or another.
The University of Arkansas has produced a number of professional athletes that travel the world, and a few of them have appeared on Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. Like Joe Kleine, a guy we claim as our own because of his years with the Razorbacks who really even surpassed the national spotlight and became an international star when he played on the U.S. Olympic Dream Team. Here’s the story from Joe.
JK: What had happened with the Olympics is that we always dominated. We always dominated. Well, basketball is growing internationally. And now, all of a sudden you have these players coming over, Marshall [inaudible], Arvydas Sabonis, Toni Kukoc. These guys coming from other countries and playing for pro teams. People started become more familiar with these pro players and started gaining respect. They were great NBA players.
Well, now, suddenly go – Or take our band of college players over there and we play against a team full of pros. And it had always been like that. But now, people recognized. Before, you didn't know who they weren't because they didn't play in the NBA. They were never over here. So, you were like, “Yeah, Fernando Martin,” who played for Spain for years, who was a great player. Nobody in United States had a clue who that guy is. Oscar Schmidt who played for Brazil. Unbelievable player. Nobody knew who he was. But now you got Drazen Petrovic, Toni Kukoc. And he plays for the Nets. He plays for the Blazers. He play – And so, they drum us. And now all of a sudden, everybody's like, “Well, that's not fair.”
KM: The Olympics was always amateurs playing, right?
JK: So in ‘88, we won the bronze and got beat by – Unbelievable. It's Lithuania. Or the Soviet Union. I can't remember. But they were full of – Pros that people knew were pros. And so, that kind of – Everybody was like, “Well, we're not going to let this happen anymore.”
KM: But that was very controversial to go from amateurs to pros in the Olympics, because the United States had always kind of had a –
JK: Well, no. If they would have won the gold that year, it wouldn't have never happened. We got beat. And we got our feelings hurt. And we thought we were being cheated. And so, we were like, “Okay. We're going to take our pros over there.” The good ol’ American way.
KM: Who was it in the Dream Team?
JK: In ’92, that was – Oh my! That was Karl Malone, Michael Jordan, Scottie Pippen, David Robinson, Patrick Ewing, Chris Mullin, Larry Bird, Magic Johnson.
[00:24:42] TW: What an unbelievable team to be a part of. That’s Joe Kleine on this week’s special edition of Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. We’re gonna turn to quite a serious matter now, from the fun of radio and comic books and sports to the legal complications that a woman who grew up in Arkansas, Susan McDougal, had to deal with during the Whitewater controversy. This was such a complicated situation for Susan to explain to Kerry that she appeared on two different episodes of Up in Your Business – one of the very first two-part episodes we’ve ever done on the show.
Nationally and internationally known for her role in that Whitewater real estate controversy, and for spending years in jail for contempt of court. She refused to testify before a Grand Jury that was investigating Bill and Hillary Clinton, refusing to answer questions from Kenneth Stars office of the independent council. That led to her amazing imprisonment, and if you listen to the epic saga of that during Kerry’s two-part episode featuring Susan McDougal, your jaw will drop. Let’s hear a little of the background that put her in the national and international spotlight. Susan McDougal!
SM: A reporter for ABC News called me and said, “There's an indictment, a 20-page indictment with your name on it.
KM: How long before you went to trial? ABC calls you, tells you you've been indicted. Now, how long before you go to trial?
SM: By the time I went to trial, and I didn't go to jail for going to trial. I went to jail for refusing to testify. By that point, I was so happy to go to jail, because I was being followed and filmed and yelled at everywhere I went. I couldn't do anything. My parents had cameras out in the front yard and they were elderly. It was horrifying. I was so glad to be where no one could come and get me. It was a relief, the first jail I went to. I thought, this is what it feels like to just be safe.
KM: Interesting. Let's talk about the trial. You go to trial. What's the first thing that happens? Character assassination. David Hale. Who was David Hale and what part did he play in the investigation?
SM: David Hale testified that Bill Clinton told him he needed some money. The only way David Hale could help him with that was to make up some loans. He had a loan company, a federally backed loan company. The federal government would give him money to loan out at good interest rates for small businesses. It's an SBA loan office. If you had a small business, you could go in and get a very low-rate loan to start this business. David Hale was producing these loans, but only for members of his own family and for his friends.
His idea to save himself was, “Yes, I did that. I also did it for Susan McDougal. I made a loan for her, a very small interest rate and that was supposed to go to Bill Clinton. That was the deal. Everybody knew it. Susan knew it. Bill Clinton knew it. I knew it.”
KM: It was all a lie.
SM: It was –
KM: It was all a proffer he made to save his own skin.
SM: That's exactly right. They had found out that he was making all of these loans and they were lies. He was even making up names on the loans. The people didn't exist and he was taking the money himself.
KM: He was going down big time. He actually was the only person in the whole trial, who was actually a crook. He proffered and threw everybody else under the bus with lies.
SM: He found Justice Jim Johnson. Do you remember him?
KM: Yes.
SM: Told him the story and they concocted the whole thing. You were making loans? Well, hey, you were making loans and Bill Clinton got the money. That was the story that I was supposed to say was true. The US attorney at the time, this lovely woman, I didn't know her, but she was awfully lovely to me, went on television and said, “This is a crock of nothing. It's a lie. I don't believe him.” They took that on to a federal judge who said, “Yes, I believe this and I believe we will start an investigation.”
I've never talked to the media. Our decision was that there was no crime. That we should just let that play out. Not appear to be too worried about it, or upset about it. I sat down one day in my infinite wisdom, and said to myself, “I would like to speak to a nice southern girl who could get me, who could understand what I'm trying to say to her.” I thought, “Diane Sawyer looks like a nice person. Ooh, I'll call her.” I called and she took my phone call.
KM: Of course, she did.
GM: Sure.
SM: I decided that my brother went up with me and my brother is – I mean, he is like Samson. He is so strong, and so well spoken, so handsome that they all want to talk to him, that he comes with me. We go up there. The guy shows up, this reporter that you're talking about, Chris, whatever. He becomes part of the production team on this interview, which does not go well at all. She is not listening to me and I am not getting to say what I want to say. In fact, when it airs, it's all cut up to pieces. I look like I've done – like I've taken money from babies. I mean, it's just horrible. Because I was still waiting to be sentenced. I had to be careful.
KM: A lot of people didn't think you should do it.
SM: A lot of people thought I shouldn't do it. Bill was very good. He stepped out in front of the cameras. That's my brother. Pretty much, just told them how it was going to go and based off the cameras. He was on camera and I was on camera saying, “I can't talk about that.” It did look bad. Larry King called me and he said, “I saw that interview, and that is a crock. That's the worst interview I've ever seen. It is a total lie. You need to come on my show. I will not interrupt you. It's live. You don't have to worry about being cut, and being made to look guilty. Just come tell the truth to the people.”
I mean, it wasn't two days later, that he flew me out there. I was at that desk on Larry King Live. People started calling. I started just telling the story, like I'm telling you all today. People started calling in and calling in. He said, he never had a show were people were so calling in angry, upset.
[00:31:42] TW: The Susan McDougal story is unbelievably compelling. Go back and listen to the two-part epic saga that Kerry McCoy did with Susan McDougal on an earlier episode of Up in Your Business. Our next guest on this special program of the national spotlight being joined by previous guests on Up in Your Business focuses on a North Little Rock girl, actress Joey Lauren Adams. Let’s pick up her story in terms of becoming an actress in Hollywood on movies and television as she comes back to America from Bali, where she had visited a man she was in a relationship with.
JLA: We come back to LA and then and I was still interested in acting, but I was also just caught up in this relationship. Then he got a job doing the paintings on a film in New Orleans that Nic Cage was going to be in. Nic Cage was playing an artist, so James was going to do the paintings that they used in the film. The production put us up in a great apartment in the Quarter.
KM: In New Orleans.
JLA: Yeah. I was baking biscuits for the crew and taking it in the morning, taking them food and just going to set. It was the first time I was able to be on a set and see what it was like. I just remember thinking like, “I know I could do this. I know I could do this.” I was watching the lead actress and the writer was a female writer who was super cool, really, really smart and amazing. I became friends with the producer and his girlfriend at the time, later became his wife. They left, we stayed in New Orleans for a little bit longer. Then when I got back, that producer called me he said, “I want you to go meet a casting director. She's casting the show and I think they're having a hard time. I want you to go meet her.”
KM: What show was that?
JLA: It was Parenthood.
KM: Were you in Parenthood?
JLA: No, I didn’t get it.
KM: Oh, I was about to say, I didn’t see that in –
JLA: No. I went and met the casting director and then she said, “Will you come back and read?” Of course, I'm calling my grandmother, like everyone like, “I'm going to read for a casting director.” Then I went and read and then it just – was the most nerve-wracking experience, because I was nervous to just go meet her. Then I had to go and read for her. I think the first time I met her, she had me read a scene from Mystic Pizza. I did that, so then she was like, “Okay, here's the real sides. I want you to come back and do a real audition.” I did that and then you wait to hear and then she's like, “Okay. I want you to come and read for the producers.” Then I went –
KM: The call back.
JLA: Yeah. Then I went and read for the producers. Then the producers, a couple of them wanted to have a private work with me. I think they were attracted to me, because I was refreshing in that they were like, what have you been doing? Just did this play. I've just been come from Bali and New Orleans and they were –
KM: Australia and Arkansas.
JLA: Right. It just kept going on and calling back and then waiting and then I think they're going to test you.
KM: But you didn’t get it.
JLA: I did not get it.
KM: How did you handle that rejection?
JLA: It was hard. It was really –
KM: A lot of people quit after that. They're like, “Okay, that was too hard. I've got to quit.”
JLA: Everyone had been so nice in the process. I felt like I had done good. I don't feel like I made it to network and then lost it.
KM: Where do you find this courage? Think about all the stuff you've done. How old are you now? I mean, then?
JLA: That's 22.
KM: How do you buoy yourself at 22? How do you keep that drive? Where did that drive come from?
JLA: It was the validation. I did good. I went and met with her and I read a scene from Mystic Pizza and I did good. I hadn't heard a lot in my life, “You did good. You're good at that.” I hadn't heard that. The only place I'd ever heard it was from my acting teacher in high school and then this. It felt good to be told that and to be told you're good at something. Then when I went and read for the producers, I did a good job. I made it, my first audition to the network.
KM: You did finally get on TV. I think that was your first gig.
JLA: Yeah, a month later. Again, you go and you're just told, “No.” I mean, you're told, “Your boobs aren’t big enough.” At the time, you were told like –
KM: Oh, gosh. I know. They tell you that all the time.
JLA: You can feel when you're walking around. I went and auditioned for the show that was going to be a spinoff of Married with Children. I was sitting in the hallway and I was just in a good mood and –
KM: Okay. So excited.
JLA: - this guy walks down the hallway and he looks like he could be the delivery guy. He had baggy ripped jeans. Before that was popular. Really stringy hair and just this stretched out t-shirt and a Coke and he's walking down the hall. I said like, “Hey, how are you?” He stopped and he looked at me and he's like, “I'm good. How are you?” I was like, “I'm good. I’m about to go audition for the show.” Then when I walked in the room, it was Ron Levitt who had created Married with Children and was the creator of the show. He was like, “Hey, again.” My audition was one line.
KM: What was it?
JLA: “You know, I don't like boys, mama.” I got that job, I think because I had said hey to him in the hallway when most people were like, “Ew, who's that?” I did a show, just called Top of the Heap, then they revamped it with just – it was Joe Bologna and Matt LeBlanc and I, then they revamped it. Then I did Dazed and Confused was the first big film.
KM: You did Dazed and Confused, Conehead and Mallrats. Those were all different directors?
JLA: Yeah.
KM: Really?
JLA: Dazed and Confused and then I did this film with James Caan and then Jim Jacks was saying that there was this movie Mallrats.
KM: You have done so many movies you can't even remember. You probably hadn't even seen them all.
JLA: Then jump back to –
KM: This is 1993, you just did the program and you didn't do Chasing Amy until 1997, so you're right.
JLA: Yeah. We may have shot it in ’95 and it came out.
KM: You must have, because I saw Michael with you dancing with John Travolta. Is he really cute in person?
JLA: He's so nice.
KM: I don't really fan over movie stars, but I kinda over him.
JLA: I know. We grew up singing the Grease songs.
KM: I just watched it again the other day with my granddaughter. It's a crazy show for teenagers, if you hadn’t seen it. Yeah, Chasing Amy actually came out before in the movie theaters, I think before Michael.
JLA: Because I feel like I did Michael before Chasing Amy.
KM: Let’s talk about Chasing Amy. That I know is Kevin Smith. He said he wrote it for you.
JLA: He did Mallrats. He did Mallrats. Because Jim Jacks who worked – because they're both Universal Films, so Jim Jacks who had produced Dazed and Confused brought a lot of people back in to audition for Mallrats. That's a whole another long story about rejection. I didn't get the part originally.
KM: In Mallrats?
JLA: Yeah.
KM: Did you get a different part?
JLA: No.
KM: Oh, you didn't eventually get it?
JLA: No. They gave it to Parker Posey who was staying with me at the time, because we had become friends.
KM: Which with the B right there.
JLA: I started crying. She's like, “What’s wrong?” I'm like, “I’m not getting the part. They're giving it to you.” Then she couldn't do it. It was just awful. Then finally they called and we're like, okay, they do want you.
KM: Did Kevin Smith write Chasing Amy for you? He says he did.
JLA: He had a version of that film that he wanted to do after Mallrats that was more like a – It was going to be a studio film. That was going to be kinda John Hughes. I think there were going to be high school kids who maybe one was lesbian. Then I was going to be a teacher and Ben Affleck, we were going to be teachers somehow in it. It was a different film. Then Mallrats came out and tanked. That really threw Kevin for a loop.
KM: You were dating him now.
JLA: Yeah, we had started dating.
KM: You brought him home for Christmas.
JLA: Yes.
KM: Is that a story, or is that not a story?
JLA: It's not –
KM: Not a good story?
JLA: Well it's a good story. He gave really funny Christmas gifts. He's funny. I mean, he's funny and I mean, my family loved him. He's a really sweet, funny guy.
KM: He also, Dogma, he wrote also for you and you were going to be the lead in that, but you two broke up, because I think, because you were dating Vince Vaughn.
JLA: No.
KM: No?
JLA: No.
KM: Why did you all breakup? It wasn’t all around that same area?
JLA: Well, because – I mean, it’s complicated.
KM: When you make your next movie, is it going to be about your love life?
JLA: No.
KM: It would be a long and winding road.
JLA: It would definitely. Yeah.
KM: All right, Chasing Amy. That role was so big and so huge, it was probably a B-movie. You got so many accolades for it and you got nominated for the Best Kiss with a woman.
JLA: And for a Golden Globe.
KM: Best Actress in a picture, musical or comedy. Yeah. That's wonderful.
JLA: It was crazy.
[00:41:04] TW: Joey Lauren Adams, from North Little Rock. And from this very studio, Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy, we’re focusing on guests from the program that enjoyed the national spotlight in one way or another, and one of my favorite stories from past shows is coming up next. Do you know the name Leslie Singer? Leslie Singer got kind of famous around Little Rock when he made a number of annual appearances as one of The Two Jewish Guys in fundraisers for the NPR radio station in Little Rock, KUAR. Leslie has had lots of jobs in his life and at one point thought he was gonna be a rock star – and he almost was! Here’s the story.
KM: Tell us about your career. It was successful. What was the name of your band?
LS: Well, I was in several bands as I was growing up. The two bands that sort of took me to places that were the most unusual was a group called The Unluv’d, which was a soul band. This is prior to the bigger band.
KM: Unlov’d?
LS: The Unlov’d, L-U-V’D.
KM: Of course.
LS: As was the fashion back there in the – This was a soul band, and it was a very good band.
[The opening lines of Aint’ Gonna Do You No Harm by The Unluv’d plays]
LS: We really thought we were going to make it. We had a big manager who had – And a big musical attorney in New York named Warren Troupe, and we had a secret under the table partner, which is – Remember payola and all that kind of thing.
We had – Well, this wasn’t payola. But there was a guy in New York named Scott Muni who was a major radio DJ, and FM had just started. That's how old this is. Scott Muni was a secret partner with our manager, Paul Mineo. We had these two women who wrote songs for us. Both of whom had had hit records like with Wilson Pickett and other people. This was going to be it, and we just knew it, and it wasn’t, it just never happened.
We played a lot of great clubs. We actually opened once at a Ms. New York State contest. We opened for James Brown, if you can believe that. This was a good band. We played at the Peppermint Lounge and all that kind of good kind of cool stuff, but we never made it big. But it was almost beside the point, because it's the late ‘60s. You’re in New York. You're in the rock and roll business. It wasn't going to get much better than that for kids our age.
Left that band. I was sort of recruited to another band called The Unspoken Word, which went to school up at Brown University in Rhode Island School of Design up there where you were. They were like more of a – They had a woman lead singer. Her name was Dede, and they were more like psych rock. Psych like not psychedelic but quietly, ethereal. They were really good. So we got a great recording contract with them with ATCO, which is in Atlantic Records. We did this first album, which was a concept album called Tuesday, April 19th.
KM: People don’t know what concept album means.
LS: Well concept album means that there was like a story behind it. It wasn’t just 14 songs or something. There was more to it. There was a story. Frankly, there really wasn't. We were trying to make more out of it than it really was.
KM: What was the name of the album?
LS: It was called Tuesday, April 19th, which was meant to be just a day in the life of this person. I never really understood.
KM: Because it's a story.
LS: Because it’s a story. Now, it doesn't really read like a story of anybody's day. It frankly doesn't. But this was the ‘60s, man. You could just say anything and do anything.
KM: Bob Dylan was writing all these ballads.
LS: Yeah. And these long things. Then we had – So then that was well received. But then we – That wasn't really us. We thought –
Philip Kaplan: Received by whom?
LS: By local. It was on the radio, and it got good reviews by different music –
PK: My mother would say, “Never heard of it.”
LS: Never heard. Well, most people never heard of it. Those who did liked it.
KM: How do you say never heard of it in Yiddish?
LS: How do you say that?
PK: [speaks in Yiddish].
LS: Yeah. [speaks in Yiddish].
[The Unspoken Word cover of Around and Around plays]
LS: So we did it. It was a fancy album. I mean, it had a big orchestra and everything, because we said this might be the only album we do. Let's make it significant.
PK: Strange.
LS: But it really wasn't us.
PK: Strange again.
LS: Yeah. Big orchestra, strange and everything. Yeah.
PK: Brass.
LS: The whole – Every instrument, Phil. Literally every instrument, timpani, everything.
PK: Timpani?
LS: Timpani even. And the –
KM: Did you have the low triangle?
LS: We had the triangles. We had cymbals. We had that tuba.
PK: Did you have a gong?
LS: We had a oboe. We had a gong.
KM: No, you did not.
LS: I don’t think we had a gong. We could have had a gong if there was gong part. Anyway, we did that. So it didn’t really – But really we were really not that kind of a band. We were a really kind of a hard-driving blues band. So our next album just simply called The Unspoken Word was that.
KM: It did better?
LS: It did better. A matter fact, it got reviewed in Rolling Stone Magazine and got a great review in Rolling Stone Magazine. I mean they really liked it. So we toured around with that but still never really made it. I've tried to create this. I haven't really tried. I thought about trying to create this buzz about this album, which is available, by the way, like on eBay and Spot – You can hear it in different places.
KM: Tuesday, April –
LS: Tuesday, April 19th, which was –
KM: By The Unspoken Word.
LS: By The Unspoken Word, which was just a random date that I actually came up with just off the top of my head. But what happened was Tuesday, April 19th several years later was the Waco massacre. Remember when Waco —
PK: David Koresh. Was that David Koresh?
LS: David Koresh and that communal group got – Then a couple years later was the Oklahoma City bombing, which was –
KM: I cannot believe those were on the same two days.
LS: Well, I think they were related to each other. I think the Oklahoma City bombing was in as a result of the Waco thing. In other words, somebody was saying, “I’m going to –”
KM: Celebrating.
LS: Yeah, celebrating. So I've tried to create this – I fantasized about creating a artificial buzz about how if you listen to The Unspoken Word Tuesday, April 19th album, there's all these hints at some big stuff was coming down.
PK: Would that be fake buzz?
LS: That’s fake buzz we call that. But it wasn’t. I mean, it’s because you can project anything into anything.
KM: Phil said it’s because you have to play the album backwards.
LS: The album backwards. Yeah. You don’t have to. But literally, these two albums are still – They’re on – I think you can get them on Amazon or you – I know somebody rerelease them as CDs.
KM: I’m going to go listen.
LS: Yeah. They’re pretty good. They hold up. They held – One is a very –
KM: Do you miss playing the drums?
LS: Yes, a little.
KM: You don’t play at all anymore?
LS: Not much. Every once in a while, I sit in but I –
KM: How’s your hearing?
LS: I don't have any hearing problems, but it I've lost some of my drumming chops. You know what I mean?
KM: Mm-hmm.
LS: It’s like not speaking the language. If you don't speak it for a long time, you sort of lose it. But I think I could get it back. But I don't really want to. I’m into other things these days. Don't ask me what I’m –
KM: Eating.
PK: He’s – You can tell by looking at him. I mean, walking down the street, he’s got a rhythm.
LS: Yeah. I got –
KM: He's got swagger?
PK: Because his hands are going in a different way than his feet, and his hand is going one way, and his hand is going another way.
LS: You call that swagger? I don’t think that’s –
PK: That’s what a drummer has to do. A drummer has to have the ability to have one rhythm going in one hand and different on the other hand and something on his foot.
LS: They have names for that. It’s called base drum independence like your right foot has to – But you have to practice. It’s not like you can just do it. I mean, you have to practice like being a – So anyway, all in all a very, very fun musical career, which basically determined the whole pathway of my life because the band got me to Arkansas. The band got me –
KM: How did it do that?
LS: Well, we were getting ready to write the second album, and a friend of mine in New York had met a communal group that was living in Arkansas.
KM: Very popular at the time.
LS: Yes. He said, “Why don’t you guys come down to Arkansas and live with us for a month or so and write your album down there?” That just sounded like the coolest thing ever. So we did, and we came down, and we wrote the album, and then we went back to New York.
KM: So you went back to New York?
LS: I went back to New York but then came back down to Arkansas, because I love –
KM: Because you fell in love or something?
LS: Because I liked it here.
KM: Oh, you just liked it here.
[00:50:51] TW: We’ll wrap up today’s show with a nod to a man who was a guest on the show named Arlo Washington, and this man has an Oscar nomination to his name. Arlo is the founder of the Washington Barber College in Little Rock and People’s Trust Loan Fund, a nonprofit that helps small businesses in low-income communities. His story was so rich, a documentary was made about his work, and it was nominated for an Academy Award. When it came out, it caught the attention of Christiane Amanpour on CNN.
CA: The barber of Little Rock is a short documentary that follows the story of Arlo Washington. He runs a barber college in Arkansas and a credit union dedicated to serving the black community. The film exposes issues of segregation and economic inequality that persist to this day. Michelle Martin spoke with Washington and with John Joffman, one of the filmmakers, shortly after they received the news that their film had been nominated for an Oscar.
MM: You opened the community’s first community development financial institution, this was back in 2008. You know, being a barber is no small thing, running a business is no small thing, running a barbering school is no small thing; so how did you get the idea to open this financial institution.
AW: We emerged out of an unmet credit need in our community. In 2009, Arkansas became a credit desert with the prohibition of predatory payday lending, and from that we began to get community members to come and ask for loans. And that’s how we started. And like most small businesses, you know, I started it out of my pocket. Being a small business owner in the community and growing up in the community and experiencing generational poverty myself, I know the importance of access to capital.
[00:52:41] TW: Oscar winners. Other actors and actresses. Professional athletes. National radio and television hosts. Comic book artists for DC and Marvel. They’ve all been on Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy and enjoyed the national spotlight at one time or another. We hope you listen every week to the program on this radio station, back next week with another episode of Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy.
[OUTRO]
TW: Part of Kerry McCoy enterprises is OurCornerMarket.com, the perfect online site for everything you need to strengthen your business’s image or beautify your home and landscaping. You can browse through products like custom plaques in bronze or aluminum; business signage; address plaques to dress up your home or apartment complex; memorial stones and markers, even for your beloved pets; logo mats; and countless other items. Please visit OurCornerMarket.com today and start shopping.
GM: You've been listening to Up in Your Business with Kerry McCoy. For links to resources you heard discussed on today’s show, go to flagandbanner.com, select Radio Show, and choose today’s guest. If you'd like to sponsor this show, or any show, contact me, Gray at gray@flagandbanner.com. All interviews are recorded and posted the following week. Stay informed of exciting upcoming guests by subscribing to our YouTube channel or podcast wherever you like to listen. Kerry's goal is simple — to help you live the American dream.
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